Recording or Playing ? - Poll.

[_D_S_J_R_]

A good system doesn't do this though (make a bad recording sound worse), at least not in my experience.

[edit]

[SteveTheShadow]

OK good systems making crap recordings sound worse is an interesting concept, to which the response " my arse " seems most appropriate.
Take the mid sixties recording of Dusty Springfield's "Little by Little" if when heard on the car system, it sounds fine albeit slightly down on bass then sounds absolutely vile (which is extremely possible) on your home hi-fi system, the only conclusion that can sensibly be reached, is that your car system is better than your home system....

So the quest has to be to put a system together, that will play anything and everything you throw at it and allow you to enjoy it. If the car system can do it, then so can your home system. However, to arrive at this state of affairs, is unbelievably difficult. Nevertheless the fact remains that is a system cant, show up something of merit in everything you listen to, then it is compromised somewhere along the line.

The usual place to start looking for this compromised quality is in the upper midrange to lower treble. Many people make the fatal mistake of equating upper mid-forwardness with wow factor. But as I have tried to say before, an upper mid forward system will make 90% of your music unlistenable.


Now that's fine if that's how you want it, but I can spot it a mile off and simply would leave the room, as I have done more often than not when I used to attend shows. The daft thing is that owners of these awful excuses for hi-fi never seem to talk about music, but they are highly discerning when it comes to recordings and often have a pretty big collection of audiophile CDs 180gm vinyls and all the rest of the nonsense.

The rest of us with "great" systems just listen to what the hell we want and simply enjoy it.
Here's a little challenge; search on youtube for "Good Rockin" by Jr Walker and the All Stars. If this 1963 recording has you running from the room then your system is far too mid forward and needs sorting.

[zebbo]

Steve, I think "your arse" has just done most of the talking there!
The fact that the car stereo makes everything sound OK, (note I only say ok), is probably more to do with how compromised it is. It pretty much gives you a glossed-over, averaged out melange of sound that is unlikely to offend, much like listening to the radio, in both instances you're probably involved in doing something else at the same time so that's fine. No system can perform magic, nor should it. If the recording has flat dynamics and wooly bass that's what you should hear is it not?

[SteveTheShadow]

Well it's an interesing discussion nevetheless. I think it comes down to what we want from our systems.
A mate and I once challenged a flat earth amp maker about this very thing during a show. It was hilarious. My mate asked them to put on an Isley Bros Motown LP he had with him and we were politely asked whether we were taking the piss and if we were then we should bugger off. I mean, a pair of grey haired, late middle aged men being asked to bugger off. Made us feel 17 again.

It has taken me years to downgrade my system sufficiently to get everything sounding good and I must confess I have never been more happy. I have my Northern Soul going at the moment and am getting on the good foot, but earlier I was enjoying 24/96 masters of Mozart Requiem and the Solti Mahler 8 ( intimacy and massive dynamics all present and correct) Of course the Mozart and Mahler recordings piss all over the Northern Soul, which can be pretty dodgy on the wrong system, but that is what hi-fi is about for me, the ability of the system to get to the heart of the music, whatever the quality or not.

Others feel differently and that's OK too. I remember an old title from the 70s called "Hi-Fi for Pleasure" I like that phrase.
It sums it up for me.

[zebbo]

You be careful while you're throwing them moves on the lounge rug! Enjoy.

[Macca]

The usual place to start looking for this compromised quality is in the upper midrange to lower treble. Many people make the fatal mistake of equating upper mid-forwardness with wow factor. But as I have tried to say before, an upper mid forward system will make 90% of your music unlistenable.


Now that's fine if that's how you want it, but I can spot it a mile off and simply would leave the room, as I have done more often than not when I used to attend shows. The daft thing is that owners of these awful excuses for hi-fi never seem to talk about music, but they are highly discerning when it comes to recordings and often have a pretty big collection of audiophile CDs 180gm vinyls and all the rest of the nonsense.

.

I agree. I've been there and it's just wrong. Now if a recording is flat with wooly bass then yes a good system should show that up - the thing is very, very few recordings are actually like that. 99.9% of professional recordings are just that - professional. You may not like the producer/artists style of production but that doesn't mean it is a bad recording. Take Oasis albums as mentioned earlier - a good system will make sense of the recording, will demonstrate the intention (in the case of Oasis to give a live sound like you would get at an intimate gig with a small-ish PA). So although they are professional recordings they sound nothing like, say, a Dire Straits recording and a goods system will not polish them up to sound like a Dire Straits recording. If the system has issues then it will just sound like an unholy racket and not like music at all. It will make no sense to you and you will switch it off and put on some Diana Krall or Michael Hedges or similar instead because that makes the system sound good. And so you blame the recording (producers with cloth ears and all that) and get blindsided from the real issue.

[Dr Bunsen Honeydew]

Exactly, a good system makes any music make sense. So you can like it or not for what it is, not what your system is making it in to.

The flat earth did exactly that (in the last sentence) so basically chose your music for you. I react to that with things like Dire Straits by avoiding playing it even though it has a place in the 80's music history. I reject it for what it stands for not for what it is.

[Macca]

There are a lot of very slick productions out there even in Rock and Blues. I only picked Dire Straits as an e.g. because everyone knows them if only from hi-fi dems. Some artists feel that a slick production adds to their music, others feel it sounds too polished and go for more of a live feel even though it is still a studio recording. Besides Oasis, Neil Young with Crazy Horse records are a good well known example. So it is a bit unfair to blame Dire Straits for the flat earth, you might as well blame Pat Metheney or someone.

Nowadays it seems to be plinky plonk jazz or generic girls with guitars that are the audiophile standard. Probably because you would actually have to try hard to get your system to make that sort of programme to sound rough.

Cheap (to build not to buy) crappy little 2 way speakers becoming popular was the main cause of the Flat Earth music tastes if you ask me. They can't handle a complex/dynamic mix so the production got the blame. What they really needed was for the band to take out half the instruments/recording tracks to make it easier for the speakers

[zebbo]

Problem is, though, if to make their recording sound more "live" that means grungy or distorted that's just not going to work for me in the comfort of my own lounge. If I was at the actual gig, with all my other senses working together, (fed with the odd beer maybe), picking up the atmosphere and the whole feeling of the event, great, but if I'm listening at home I'll take a nice clean production every time thanks.

[Macca]

And nothing wrong with that preference at all. I would say most of the time I have the same preference in that If I sit down to listen I am usually in the mood for something lush and sweet sounding. Only occasionally will I blast out some heavy rock. But that is more about our musical tastes (and maybe our advancing age) than problems with our systems, I think.