Linn Rip off

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Re: Linn Rip off

Unread post by _D_S_J_R_ »

I've never defended Linn as a company, but since the LP12 was part of my work, thereby wages and listening DNA for fourteen years continuously and the other twenty years in servicing and setting them up, I felt I had to defend it to a degree.

The Thorens belt will work as its diameter won't be so much different - a couple of mm at most, BUT, the Thorens belt is thinner and rather more 'stretchy' than the thicker and wider Linn version, so firstly, the dynamic wow, already a problem for the Doc and some others with the stock belt, would be very much worse due to the added platter mass and the lifetime of a Thorens belt under LP12 usage would be a very few hundred hours I think and probably in the tens of hours before it stretched too much. It is possible though that the too stiff third-party Thorens belts out there might work fine with an LP12, but I never tried it and am never likely to.

The Doc will state quite firmly that Ivor took the buying audio public to the cleaners right from the off in 1973. I might have disagreed at one time with that, but what I can say is that looking back with increased distance, both Linn and to an extent, Naim, together with the amateur 'me too' reviewers in the early days and the likes of Martin Colloms in later early to mid 80's years, we were pretty well had and once hooked, line and sinkered, Linn and Naim could charge what they f'ing well liked. The Linn factory is an imposing place now and I suspect very costly to run, heat and rent. Sales can't make up for increased raw materials costs obviously and maybe certain pension pots are threatened by the current situation?

P.S. I wonder what Paul Messenger thinks. I mean, he was/is as bad as the other reviewers in perpetuating the LP12 'myth' as you lot see it and he still keeps a silly-money Naim amp in the house and used to wet himself silly in 'Choice reviews over the Karma and Troika when they were current (does he use a Naim-sheep filling-removing Lyra now?).
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Re: Linn Rip off

Unread post by Geoff.R.G »

_D_S_J_R_ wrote:The Thorens belt will work as its diameter won't be so much different - a couple of mm at most, BUT, the Thorens belt is thinner and rather more 'stretchy' than the thicker and wider Linn version, so firstly, the dynamic wow, already a problem for the Doc and some others with the stock belt, would be very much worse due to the added platter mass and the lifetime of a Thorens belt under LP12 usage would be a very few hundred hours I think and probably in the tens of hours before it stretched too much. It is possible though that the too stiff third-party Thorens belts out there might work fine with an LP12, but I never tried it and am never likely to.
Thank you for that, is the LP12 platter that much more massive than the Thorens? Not that I can see any justification for asking £50+ for a belt unless it is very special. I can think of many a belt that is more heavily loaded and stressed that costs less, though sound quality is rarely an issue with any of them.

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Dr Bunsen Honeydew
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Re: Linn Rip off

Unread post by Dr Bunsen Honeydew »

Paul uses the top Rega Deck and arm by choice, I think the arm is a special in some ways. He has the LP12 with an aro there as spare because he feels he *has* to. He has the Naim 52 pre-amp from choice and he owns it, the 500 power amp again because he has to and it is on permanent loan from Naim, where as he owns the nva TSS.

He admits to having to make a living ! and now MUCH prefers editing than reviewing.

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Re: Linn Rip off

Unread post by Lindsayt »

CN211276 wrote:They can only do it because of the amount of suckers who have been taken in for 30+ years. Not easy to admit you have been a brain washed idiot for that length of time.
I think a proportion of Linn owners aren't aware of how good other products are because they're never been exposed properly to valid alternatives.

And some of them, when being presented with something (that I or most people would rate as) better still prefer their Linn products, because the alternatives don't sound like a Linn.

And yes, some of them are too emotionally attached to the brand to take the big step of using something else. It'd feel like betraying their football team and supporting someone else.

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Re: Linn Rip off

Unread post by Dr Bunsen Honeydew »

+1 that explain it very well.

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Re: Linn Rip off

Unread post by antonio66 »

Dr Bunsen Honeydew wrote:Paul uses the top Rega Deck and arm by choice, I think the arm is a special in some ways. He has the LP12 with an aro there as spare because he feels he *has* to. He has the Naim 52 pre-amp from choice and he owns it, the 500 power amp again because he has to and it is on permanent loan from Naim, where as he owns the nva TSS.

He admits to having to make a living ! and now MUCH prefers editing than reviewing.
I can remember reading Paul Messenger having a special Rega 1000 arm on his Roy Gandy 'modded' LP12. I suppose ones tastes change as you get older or wiser and he's no different.
DSJR - Filling removing Lyra? I love my Lyra cartridge, its the second one I've owned after the Clavis. :grin:

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Re: Linn Rip off

Unread post by _D_S_J_R_ »

I think Naim's weapon of choice was a Parnassus (from memory) and in an ARO on an Armageddon LP12, it was excruciatingly 'trebly,' even for me as a user of digital over vinyl. I believe Lyra have changed since the Lydian days I fondly remember and some of this 'apparently' may be due to the softer sounds from Japanese vinyl 'supposedly' over US or European vinyl formulations (I forget the article, but it's not made up I swear). If this has some truth in reality, then this 'could' explain the leaner tones of some Jap cartridges for instance.
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Re: Linn Rip off

Unread post by Copperblue »

Strip away the hype and an LP12 is an enjoyable turntable. Not the best, not the worst but enjoyable. I have set-up a few and they do not go out of tune unless you mess with them. People who "hate" them are just as bad as the blind worshippers in my view.

Linn as a company are not to my taste though with too much nasty bullshit over the years, too much marketing BS and nowadays over priced products with low quality/cost ratios.

Though having said that, they still design and manufacture in the UK which is a positive.
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Dr Bunsen Honeydew
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Re: Linn Rip off

Unread post by Dr Bunsen Honeydew »

They pretend to with a lot of product, and I cannot differentiate the LP12 from the company they are equally as disgusting, as the company was created with a stolen product and so much bullshit and lies no one should pass the time of day with them, but people still don't know what went on!!! I am not biased I am telling the truth about them take it or leave it. It has been repeated so many times here I can't be bothered to do it again look in the archive for the history.

There are no excuses for them no matter how much DSJR tries.

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Dr Bunsen Honeydew
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Re: Linn Rip off

Unread post by Dr Bunsen Honeydew »

We have another thread here about the PT too, do you know the history of PT and Linn. That Ivor told his reps (according to an ex rep) to sabotage it in dealers and how to do it, and one was caught on camera doing it when alone in a dealers showroom. And to try and threaten dealers that if they stocked it they would lose the Linn agency, this was hinted at more delicately with some dealers than others, but all knew what was going on.

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