Linn Rip off

[_D_S_J_R_]

[
What do you thing the NAD3020 thing was, it was an Ivor creation and corruption. Linn needed a cheap amp, Naim couldn't make one, Linn weren't yet making amps. Turntable first so for people with little money a cheap amp was needed so he could sell more LP12, in the end he decided to do a cheaper TT, which was another piece of crap. He told *his* dealers, via his reps and direct, and *his* reviewers, so the NAD3020 became another created flavour of the month but this one got legs and stayed around for a couple of years. It is not even a very good amplifier, but it had the Flat Earth distortion and character. The previous NAD models from the 1970's when Acoustic Research distributed them were FAR better.

You seriously don't know the half of it.

I can't let this statement go unchallenged. I can't speak for rural UK Linn dealers, but I worked for seventeen years for one of the three largest UK Linn-Naim dealers and in the early 80's when the 3020 was a current model. These were Grahams, The Audiophile in Bishops Stortford and Studio 99. I don't remember Grahams being NAD dealers (NAD by this time was part of a buying group 'Hifi Markets' - and yes I do very fondly remember the original AR-imported New Acoustic Dimension models, which would have been triple the price of a 3020 had they survived), cannot remember if Audiophile sold them either - they sold loads of A&R A60's I remember and I can honestly state to the best of recollection that 99% of the 3020's we sold at Studio 99 went out with Dual 505's or Rega's as vinyl source. We actually laughed at the MAGAZINE LED mantra about an LP12, 3020 and Wharfedale Diamonds being a valid system. We did this for laughs and never took it seriously I promise...

In any case, the 3020 was badly put together and unreliable in its early life and, by the time the better 'A' version came along, which I very much liked and used for years on my set-up bench, Creek had started up and we began selling Creek 404's as if they were going out of fashion, as the factory was in nearby Barnet. Our rather opinionated narrow minded Naimie sales director pushed Cyrus 1's on us too, since he got a free skiing holiday from Mission/Cyrus if he met sales targets. Again, the decks we sold with these were Duals, Rega's and a few Revolver models, in addition to the rather nice Beogram 1700 and baby NAD 5120 deck with circuit-board tonearm.

Not contradicting what's been stated above, but just giving my take on the three largest Linn-Naim dealers from that period...

[Geoff.R.G]

The problem with "Source first" is that there is a grain of truth in it. If your source* is poor even the best amplification and speakers won't make it sound any better they will however bring out the best in whatever source you use.

*Not forgetting that the source is the record and a duff pressing will still be a dud whatever turntable you use.

[Alfi]

Agreed, but the source goes back further than that Geoff, with recording and mastering.


Alfi

[_D_S_J_R_]

"
You make Ivor sound like a Scottish mix of Nixon, Idi Amin and Donald Trump.." I think the Doc will agree with that.

Looking back with hindsight it would have been good to compare the LP12 with Roksan, PT, DD's, ect. When I purchased my LP12, we demo'ed again a Rega 3, Linn Basic and LP12. The LP12 came tops, that and mag reviews is why it was purchased. Yes I was naive but we all have to start somewhere.

The Sound Organisation in central London (Roger [rip] and Hamish) introduced me to the Roksan and they sold plenty of these alongside the LP12 for some years I recall. I initially found the Roksan a bit lean toned and scrappy (bias because the LP12-Ittok in '83 or so was so severely coloured the other way), but friend Jimmy Hughes bought one and ran it for many years, in my experience with his Breuer tonearm and a variety of cartridges. It sounded delightful and his second LP12 was sold, the first hardly ever used at this point - I had the NAS Mentor by this time too, so for us anyway the LP12 was slipping into obscurity.

[antonio66]

It was Hamish at Sound Org. York who sold me the LP12, in 1986, but did not dem the Roksan even though he did sell them. He did also sell me the Epos ES14's at the same time though to go with the already owned (just for Colin) fabulous Inca Tech Claymore.

[Dr Bunsen Honeydew]

[
What do you thing the NAD3020 thing was, it was an Ivor creation and corruption. Linn needed a cheap amp, Naim couldn't make one, Linn weren't yet making amps. Turntable first so for people with little money a cheap amp was needed so he could sell more LP12, in the end he decided to do a cheaper TT, which was another piece of crap. He told *his* dealers, via his reps and direct, and *his* reviewers, so the NAD3020 became another created flavour of the month but this one got legs and stayed around for a couple of years. It is not even a very good amplifier, but it had the Flat Earth distortion and character. The previous NAD models from the 1970's when Acoustic Research distributed them were FAR better.

You seriously don't know the half of it.

I can't let this statement go unchallenged. I can't speak for rural UK Linn dealers, but I worked for seventeen years for one of the three largest UK Linn-Naim dealers and in the early 80's when the 3020 was a current model. These were Grahams, The Audiophile in Bishops Stortford and Studio 99. I don't remember Grahams being NAD dealers (NAD by this time was part of a buying group 'Hifi Markets' - and yes I do very fondly remember the original AR-imported New Acoustic Dimension models, which would have been triple the price of a 3020 had they survived), cannot remember if Audiophile sold them either - they sold loads of A&R A60's I remember and I can honestly state to the best of recollection that 99% of the 3020's we sold at Studio 99 went out with Dual 505's or Rega's as vinyl source. We actually laughed at the MAGAZINE LED mantra about an LP12, 3020 and Wharfedale Diamonds being a valid system. We did this for laughs and never took it seriously I promise...

In any case, the 3020 was badly put together and unreliable in its early life and, by the time the better 'A' version came along, which I very much liked and used for years on my set-up bench, Creek had started up and we began selling Creek 404's as if they were going out of fashion, as the factory was in nearby Barnet. Our rather opinionated narrow minded Naimie sales director pushed Cyrus 1's on us too, since he got a free skiing holiday from Mission/Cyrus if he met sales targets. Again, the decks we sold with these were Duals, Rega's and a few Revolver models, in addition to the rather nice Beogram 1700 and baby NAD 5120 deck with circuit-board tonearm.

Not contradicting what's been stated above, but just giving my take on the three largest Linn-Naim dealers from that period...

You are WRONG!!! why because you were part of the system that perpetrated this fraud on the public, you were one of the (maybe unwittingly) crooks who did it. Much of what was going on stayed at owner level and mostly you just got fed the bullshit - stop being naive, you wont give up will you.

[Dr Bunsen Honeydew]

"You make Ivor sound like a Scottish mix of Nixon, Idi Amin and Donald Trump.." I think the Doc will agree with that.

Looking back with hindsight it would have been good to compare the LP12 with Roksan, PT, DD's, etc. When I purchased my LP12, we demo'ed again a Rega 3, Linn Basic and LP12. The LP12 came tops, that and mag reviews is why it was purchased. Yes I was naive but we all have to start somewhere.

You weren't ALLOWED to!

[joe]

"You make Ivor sound like a Scottish mix of Nixon, Idi Amin and Donald Trump.." I think the Doc will agree with that.

Looking back with hindsight it would have been good to compare the LP12 with Roksan, PT, DD's, etc. When I purchased my LP12, we demo'ed again a Rega 3, Linn Basic and LP12. The LP12 came tops, that and mag reviews is why it was purchased. Yes I was naive but we all have to start somewhere.

You weren't ALLOWED to!

I was ALLOWED to, in fact Roger at the Sound Organisation insisted I listen to a Roksan as he believed (and after listening I agreed with him) that the Roksan was better than the LP12. I also auditioned a PT around that time (can't remember where) and thought it sounded, er, 'less good' than either. I'd previously owned a Sony DD that was the absolute pits, but to be fair it was at the lower end of the market.

[Dr Bunsen Honeydew]

There were always exceptions that proved the rules, and there were owners who rebelled (to a degree), but they all knew which side of the bread had the butter. The story of how the NAD 3020 happened is ABSOLUTELY true, it achieved the penetration in the market and especially the reviews because Ivor made it happen because it suited him. FFS it reached the point where amp and speaker manufacturers tramped up to Castle Eng to try and get Ivor approval, because at that stage he had bullshitted himself into #1 golden ears position in the UK. I stupidly did it as with many others at the time as a way to increase UK turnover, as if Ivor approved loads of dealer doors were opened. To be met by ego, hubris, and an obvious lack of any real knowledge. Which was good for me as the spell was broken, in reality he was just hot air and bullshit.

[joe]

I was obviously immune, as the only Linn thing I've owned was a K9 cartridge (horrible thing) and the only Naim thing I've owned was a free CD, which I hated so much I gave away. I've never owned, or been tempted to own, anything by NAD. Actually, thinking back I was so put off by the Linn/Naim propaganda of some of the magazines that I was biased against the companies' products from the outset. I walked out of one dealers when he refused to let me audition a Michell against a Rega turntable, as 'the Rega is so obviously better'. When I said that I'd prefer to make up my own mind, he started to get a bit sarky, so off I went and never darkened his doors again.