Spendor Sp2/3r2 v Spendor Classic 1/2 v Harbeth SLH5 + v Stirling LS3/6.

[Dr Bunsen Honeydew]

The two things that have largely ruined our pursuit of music in the last 40 years 1/ BBC speaker design bollocks 2/ The Flat Earth Brainwash.

[savvypaul]

All that is needed to learn, and benefit, is an open mind, an ability to listen to music rather than HiFi, and the effort of finding and hearing alternatives. OP should get to a few bake offs...

[_D_S_J_R_]

interesting post...
and even DSLR is mentioned there...

also Alan A Shaw commented himself...
http://www.harbeth.co.uk/usergroup/foru ... #post72953

Shaw's first thought is how to extract profit, then how to cosset his own punters from anything that might cause them to think.

I'm trying to help by answering some points below, so apologies...

Doc, your comment above is only true of 80's and 90's UK tastes. I don't think Germany and the bulk of the US was over bothered, or am I wrong on this too?

I have to ask this. Paul, have you ever MET Alan Shaw, talked to him* and heard the other models in the range which do sound larger and less 'boring' than the P3ESR which you once liked when you first came here (ignore the C7-ES3, that's a UK-room bass-ripe left-over from the dark times which still sells well in the far east I gather). I disagree that profit is the main thought there, as if this was so, the anniversary models (which do bring more profit in) would have been conceived earlier on. AS found it hard to accept that some fancy sockets, wild veneers, Harbeth labelled film caps and tweeter blings would bring more sales, yet demand took off worldwide and even before this, they had order books full for months ahead. Don't knock the messenger, there are rooms out there very different to ours in the UK where a more polite and less assertive sounding speaker works just fine thank you - and many Harbeth owners who've posted on the HUG do go to live music venues on a regular basis and own recordings made in these venues. All this audiophool rubbish in the far eastern market as a whole makes me more convinced than ever that so many of 'us' listen with our eyes and never to the music itself. The more blinged-up the 'HiFi' and with price tags to match, the better it seems to me now

*It's so difficult to properly have a conversation by keyboard and often you need the face-to-face contact to properly 'read' a person, which I find difficult in any case. The Doc is an exception, what he types is what you get face to face - I've yet to meet others so directly similar....

I'm seen as a subjective maverick on the HUG and after a private mega-flounce by PM's exchanged last Christmas-time, when I lost it with AS and his pompously rigid early-1970's-simple objective 'measurement' ideals, all but ignoring all the work done since by Otala, Pass, Curl, Levinson and many others, my posting rights there were quietly removed when the forum was revamped early this year. I've lost my temper over threads there several times since, so it's probably a good idea that I cannot post on that *manufacturer* forum. It's all but dead now anyway.....

To the OP - More 'life' means a less box-bound and lush 'tone' and instruments sounding a bit more as they really are. The thing is and this is what grates here I feel, so many far eastern owners of Harbeth and Spendor 'Classic' speakers want a silky smooth 'nice' sound from their stereos (I say 'nice' in a derogatory way). The better off users have Accuphase, McIntosh and Luxman amps and many use vinyl as a main source and valve amps and praise the 'smooth as silk' sound they get as if it's a good thing. In response, all I can ask is that you get a listen to an intimate jazz group. Trumpets and saxes can cut you down at ten paces and that's nothing compared to a drum kit heard close to. I do appreciate these excesses are tamed in the recording and mixing process, but there's enough wonderful 1950's jazz out there to use as a sorted of comparison (so much more to say, but I've said far too much already).

By the way, the Harbeth SHL5+ needs loads of power now to make it come alive, the bass isn't soggy any more and you know what, some far eastern people don't like the better and slightly more realistic sound it offers over earlier models because it's not as 'lush' as before...

The SP2/3 as originally presented was an over-ripe slush box and when I collected the LS5/9's, I far preferred the latter when compared side by side, despite their deliberate balance flaws done to suit the BBC requirements, not anyone elses. Since Spendor's take-over, the 2/3 had the ripeness progressively tamed, as it seems the chap in charge of the new model designs listens to percussive music and not just string quartets and delicate chamber music... Current A and D models are little like the mid period boomy slush boxes they used to make - and that includes the big ones too, which always seemed to have a bass lift where UK style rooms dictate a bass cut if they're placed less than a metre from rear walls.

[savvypaul]

I bought Harbeth (P3ESR) after getting fed up of honking, spitting bling boxes. However, the Cube 3s at £600 walk all over the £1600 Harbeths for musicality, believable acoustic and scale, and without any added nasties.

I understand why people go down the Harbeth route but they are treating the symptoms rather than removing the problem. It is like taking a car that handles badly and fitting a speed limiter instead of designing a new chassis. The Harbeths are stuffed with thick foam and complex crossover - music limiters. Hence the analogy of an intimate jazz group heard live versus the 'smooth as silk' reproduction. In our recent speaker bake off this was exactly the area in which the Harbeths were immediately shown up:

Comment from attendee, listening to Hank Mobley blue note jazz recording and female vocals: "Then we got the Harbeths (I really wanted to hear these). They sounded as though Paul had replica recordings where the musical instruments were full of wadding and the singer's mouths full of cotton wool; Trevor and I looked somewhat incredulous with a "where has the music gone" looks on our faces."

https://hifisubjectivist.org/viewtopic. ... 9&start=20

[_D_S_J_R_]

What amp was used? At reasonable price, Croft sounds well with them in my experience... P3ESR's are small though and probably less efficient.

I had Cube 2's here, tried them in three different rooms and do have a tiny idea of how they 'drive' a room compared to direct firing speakers. I can understand how the miniature Harbeths now disappoint in comparison.

[savvypaul]

What amp was used? At reasonable price, Croft sounds well with them in my experience... P3ESR's are small though and probably less efficient.

I had Cube 2's here, tried them in three different rooms and do have a tiny idea of how they 'drive' a room compared to direct firing speakers. I can understand how the miniature Harbeths now disappoint in comparison.

NVA P50sa & A80 MK2s

I have also used Sugden A21aS2

[savvypaul]

AS, of course, states that all amplifiers sound the same.

Is that business thinking to ensure no-one is put off his speakers?

[savvypaul]

I have never met AS.

Telling me that he only resorted to cynical 'bling' marketing when he found out that it actually worked...does not constitute a glowing character reference.

I heard the SLH5 at a dealer once and liked it - whether I would now, having heard many more alternatives, is a different question. I'm up for listening, though.

[savvypaul]

Lack of scale is not my primary gripe with the P3esr. It is lack of music - like the musicians have been smothered.

[_D_S_J_R_]

Bollix to that They played Massive Attack just fine when I first heard them and there was plenty of 'music' coming through for me anyway and they were more than a match - levels excepted - to the ATC actives (original blue coloured curvy SCM 20ASL pro) I was selling at the time - Croft amps used admittedly - but then, the series 7 amp will modify the speaker's response as the output impedance is so high in comparison with an NVA say... I'm not scoring points whatever you may feel. I tend to dislike tiny boxes in any case irrespective of who makes them and as I said, the Cube 3's are very different.

All this chit-chat is irrelevant to the OP. I was just clumsily trying to say that Spendor have moved on hugely since the mid 80's models, the SP2 model has had numerous revisions and I suspect the current model is way better and rather different to the similar sized, slushy, over-ripe (to me) original.