Spendor Sp2/3r2 v Spendor Classic 1/2 v Harbeth SLH5 + v Stirling LS3/6.

[Classicrock]

Hi-fi prices are now a rip off! Harbeth do have bigger drivers but they don't sound good enough for the money charged. Big Tannoys have large drivers but also expensive as well as big B&W both of which are not to everybody's taste and not liked on this forum. Some of the thin speakers with ports may be a decent compromise if you need wood cabinets and floor standers. The current Proac range sound good using ribbon tweeters. Mainly being well balanced and not overbright rather than deep bass. Maybe speaker kits are the answer but not so many available. Just not heard enough to comment. Wondered around Wilmslow audios 'showroom' nr Leicester some years ago and wasn't impressed. IPL have some transmission designs with large drivers that look interesting. I'm sure there is far more choice over the pond. Have you considered the modern Spendor designs rather than the BBC derived models? Unless you have a big room do you need a 10" bass capable of church organ low notes?

[karatestu]

Very few people have the time and facilities to do what you do Karate Kid, the advantages of being a farmer. It is not normality for most people to have a large farmhouse or farmyard and barn space and tools and machinery and just loads of old junk lying around. The saying is farmers never throw anything away. You are in a pretty unique situation - enjoy it.

You are right doc except the bit about junk. There is no such thing as junk

Yes farmers throw little away as there is space to store it. But the old chipboard furniture has come in very useful for prototypes. Getting a bit low on supplies now. Probably enough for another two pairs of big speakers. Will be buying some nice baltic birch for the final build.

Sorry - off topic alert

[57charles]

Dr Bunsen - your reply got me thinking. Many years ago, over 40 actually, I had a pair of speakers made by a very small manufacturer local to me at the time called RAM bookshelf. I know they didn't design this speaker by computer because they didn't have one and I don't think speakers were designed by computer in 1975 and I was very impressed with them for the size. A few years ago I made a big mistake buying KEF LS50 because of rave reviews - I tried and I tried and I tried to convince myself they sounded brilliant due to reviews but I gave up in the end - they genuinely hurt my ears. Now, time may have played tricks on my memory but I felt the old RAM speakers were superior in every way. Makes me wonder why many speaker makers must spend a fortune on equipment and computers - I believe Spendor even use a computer now although to be fair, their Classic series sounds good to me unlike their slim floorstanders which to my ears don't have the Classic signature. I have always believed speakers make the biggest difference in sound of a system and never subscribed to the 'source is the most important' idea by Linn. So I did listen with my ears back then. Maybe there's still hope for me, Dr Bunsen!

[Classicrock]

I once owned RAM bookshelf's. Very good speakers. Replaced with Arcam 2+ which were better (though replaced everything else at same time). Small speaker companies did not have fancy design tools in those days (before personal computers). KEF LS50 must be the most overrated and hyped speaker currently in production.

[Dr Bunsen Honeydew]

People in white coats have to justify their wages, the people who own the company wear suits and know feck all about speakers, just about their marketing egos and counting the pennies. So they don't know they are being bullshitted as much as you don't. Back in the days of RAM the guy who designed probably made them as well, small enthusiast company. Different world.

You are just as wrong saying it is speakers that are important, it is music that is important, nothing else, and what ever gives you better music, and it is step process one thing at a time. Even cable is important in the end.

[Geoff.R.G]

I am surprised that people design speakers by computer, How can you use a computer when you don't have a speaker from which to learn the principles. All most people have is a speaker that they think sort of works and they then use a computer to work out why it sounds the way it does so that they can derive formulǣ to make more speakers that sound the same.

Before you can derive formulǣ you have to have a speaker that actually sounds good, only then could you possibly achieve accurate results. Unfortunately that would only produce speakers that sounded like the prototype, there is only one instrument that can accurately determine whether a speaker sounds good, the MK1 ear.

[Dr Bunsen Honeydew]

It is the big argument I had with Moose at Audio Talk. Pages and pages of theory, charts equations computer and test gear read outs, my eyes just glazed over, I had never seen so much bullshit in my life. So me being me I told him so.

It is all so daft, how did the guys do it in the 50's and the 60's and why did they more often than not make something musically better than we do now. It is simple you need an ear that relates to music and empirical design ability to reproduce that. The first equation knob heads worked for the BBC and cashed in by starting their own companies, it has been downhill since then.

[Lindsayt]

interesting post...
and even DSLR is mentioned there...

also Alan A Shaw commented himself...
http://www.harbeth.co.uk/usergroup/foru ... #post72953

IMF+TDL: Servicing NVA? What servicing? NVA have been properly engineered (like most genuinely good solid state amps) to require no regular servicing. EG Capacitors of sufficient spec used in temperature conditions where they do not require a Naim type servicing schedule.
As for screws in speakers, Speakers are speakers, amps are amps. And NVA speakers use acrylic cases...
For RFI, based on the MCRU phono bake-off. This may be something to be aware of - in some systems. However the system at that bake-off was not what I'd call a typical one: phono stage into TVC volume control into prototype single output Mosfet power amp.

Milosz: underpowered and unstable? Underpowered? Underpowered for what? Filling Wembley Stadium at rock concert levels with a pair of Harbeths? For domestic use NVA A70's will play at 103 dbs at 1 meter continuously with 84db efficient speakers.

Miles MG, if you're happy with your existing system, feel free to keep it as it is. If I had an Audiolab 8000 and Quad 34/303 amplifiers, I'd be looking to try something else.

MikeM, what "nasty and twisted" stuff are you referring to? Please feel free to give specific examples. Context may well be everything. And there is a thread on the Hi-fi Subjectivist forum for discussing anything "nasty and twisted" that Richard Dunn may have said. Feel free to contribute to that thread. https://hifisubjectivist.org/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=48634

A.S. I agree about your comment on the clarity of NVA's position. My understanding is that you seem to be greatly overestimating the frequency of failures due to NVA amplifiers requiring low capacitance speaker cables. The vast majority of NVA owners are not idiots. They can read and understand the simple proviso that low capacitance speaker cables should be used and that this is therefore a non-issue. My understanding is that repair work is a minimal revenue stream for NVA. To put it into context, NVA have for many years kept their turnover below the UK VAT threshold. Most of their turnover is from sales of new amps, cables and speakers. Work it out for yourself: what is 1%, 5%, 10%, 20% of the UK VAT threshold per year? It's certainly not a "vital revenue stream".

[Lindsayt]

I have a big book on the history of KEF that I got for Christmas last year and having read it, realise that I would never be able to make a pair of speakers. They have specialist technicians and experts using big computers and special anoceic chambers that they design their speakers in.Unfortunately, I am not a techie nor am I practical. Will have to leave this to the experts, I'm afraid. I just wish the likes of Spendor, Harbeth etc didn't charge so much for their speakers, though. For example, the Spendor Classic 1/2 is over $7000 here in America for a 2 cubic foot box with an 8" driver. I guess you're paying for their expertise in audio as well as the actual manufacture costs of speaker. I can't win.

Steve57 has access to none of these. And yet at MCRU recent bake-off his red and black DIY'd speakers were the best sounding ones that I heard there on that day.

He has made a few DIY speakers. Every one that I've heard has sounded good. Good enough to sound better than Spendor SP2's and Harbeth SLH5's. Over the years he's tried different drivers and speaker cabinets and used to his ears to refine his designs to come up with his latest creation.

If you go on US forums you''ll also see plenty of examples of Frankenstein type DIY speaker systems. The midrange unit from one pair of speakers and bass drivers and bass bins (sometimes DIY bass bins) from another. This makes a lot of sense to me. Like making a good wine or whisky by blending the best elements from various sources.

[Geoff.R.G]

I have a big book on the history of KEF that I got for Christmas last year and having read it, realise that I would never be able to make a pair of speakers.

Why would you think that? Making speakers is simple enough with basic woodworking skills, it is just a box. It needs to be rigid but that is down to the choice of materials. There are plenty of recommendations in various threads. The size is dependent on the bass driver, 10" or 12" means a cabinet somewhat wider than that and the same depth. Again there is plenty of information on thid forum.

They have specialist technicians and experts using big computers and special anoceic chambers that they design their speakers in.Unfortunately, I am not a techie nor am I practical. Will have to leave this to the experts, I'm afraid.

Why do you think all that technology makes for a better speaker? I have already said that there is only one instrument you need and you already have a pair of them, ears. An anechoic chamber will let you see what the speaker is doing but there is, as far as I know, no way to equate the graphs produced in the chamber to how good the music sounds. Speakers in anechoic chambers aren't tested with music, they use signal generators. The way a speaker handles a 1KHz sine wave doesn't tell you much about how it copes with a solo flute or a kick drum.

I just wish the likes of Spendor, Harbeth etc didn't charge so much for their speakers, though. For example, the Spendor Classic 1/2 is over $7000 here in America for a 2 cubic foot box with an 8" driver. I guess you're paying for their expertise in audio as well as the actual manufacture costs of speaker. I can't win.

Simple answer, don't buy Spendor or Harbeth speakers. Spend 1% of the price of the Spendor Classic 1/2 and go to a concert, not a rock concert, something acoustic and you will come away with a different perspective. If it isn't about the music you might as well get a couple of boxes from Radio Shack.