Naim

[Classicrock]

It's amazing what some people will pay for Naim junk!

[Dr Bunsen Honeydew]

It is the remains of a brainwash, look how many people still go to church. In both case it has to be faith as there is little reality in it and both are declining in followers.

[CN211276]

Im amazed at how many got sucked in by the bullshit in the 80s. I think it is probably because purchasers were denied the opportunity to compare Linn and Naim with alternatives. I might have fell for it had I not insisted on hearing a LP12 against a Rega. It then dawned on me that what the magazines were spouting was

[_D_S_J_R_]

Back in the early 80's, comparing a Rega with an LP12 was easy... Just listen to some well played piano music and pitch aside, the Rega made piano notes run together more - it blurred the edges, the LP12 in proper fettle for the period, allowing you to hear deeper into the music than a typical alternative (Systemdek, Logic 101, Oracle, Thorens, JBE and so on). I'll be shouted down again for saying this I'm sure, but I swear the differences were there to be heard, it was repeatable and I assure you I never once felt I was ripping purchasers off - neither would I denigrate those who either couldn't hear the difference or felt any 'difference' wasn't important to them. Any Rega I sold was usually set up/cartridge fitted in front of the client and my so-called set-up 'station' was in full view for all to watch and see and never hidden away in a back room!

Now back to your dem at Studio 99? I wasn't at the Swiss Cottage store, but I can confirm that the decks were in use all day, the plinths weren't as solid as the later ones were and bearing in mind that some of these decks were moved around a lot and weren't cycled round hugely often, it may just be that everything clamped to the sometimes soft wooden plinth mounting blocks had loosened off and was in need of tightening up. By the mid 80's, we made sure the decks on dem were checked very regularly to keep them in proper trim and it's this that has improved on post 1991 production. Too late and too costly I grant you, but improvements were made. In the meantime, the Spacedeck was better and cheaper...

I know I know, it's all a load of bullshit to some here, but I'm getting rather cross at the insinuations that I and others were brainwashed fuckwits who just followed the mantra blindly. I didn't! I just made bloody sure that every LP12 I set up was done as carefully (and at the time tightly, as this made one heck of a difference in the early days of sloppy plinths) as possible. Every Ittok and Basik arm was checked for tightness of the parts screwed together and I always made sure that anyone buying the bloody thing had a comparison with an alternative (or a Rega at least) so they KNEW why they were buying it. It wasn't until the mid 80's when turntable supports became better acknowledged and when clients bought in their mid 70's Technics decks for a check over and stylus/cartridge change, that we began to discover that they were actually rather bloody good if sited right (and often with lid removed when playing). I apologise, I never once saw a PL71 apart from 1974 or so when it was a briefly current model!

[Dr Bunsen Honeydew]

Dave you were part of the problem, along with all the other brainwashed knob heads I met back in those days. You are not as bad now but you keep slipping back. The problem was a whole generation of the best turntables in the world were not imported, because the British were flat earthed brainwashed, you were told how to listen to music and what music to listen to. I keep trying to cure you by proving it when you are here, and for a while you agree then you go and talk to Hi-Fi Dave and the other dinosaur rip-off merchants still feeding off us, and back you go again to your old mantra. THE LP12 WAS CRAP - FULL STOP, why, because it played its own music and Ivor convinced the industry that wrong was right, it is that simple. You are to blame along with just about everyone else involved in that nonsense. I am sure if you were allowed to hear *WITH AN OPEN MIND* the turntables being produced in Japan in the 1980's, and I don't mean the plastic crap that was imported here, then it would be as clear as the nose on your face what was going on. Even the Techy 1210 at that time taking off in the then new DJ market pissed on a LP12 or Rega musically, not flat earth plinky plonk - real music. It is not hard to make Dire Straights sound good, but even with that plinky plonk you really don't know what you are missing. And don't talk to me about Rega, how can you respect a company that import about the best value arm ever imported in the UK, by a UK manufacturer - better than Linn. and then replace it with the English made crap they did it with, BECAUSE they made more money from it - Rega are part of the rip-off just not so brutal.

I know exactly what I am talking about, as I experienced it and was guilty of it myself. Did a Heathrow show with Trio LO7d and Allison speaker, sound marvelous and played proper music, people insulted me and the dem, in loud voices "not a Linn is it" and other such crap. For once in my life AND NEVER AGAIN I gave in and the following year used a LP12 and Saras, for me it was shite, but all the foot tapper knob heads loved it. To count the number of them walking in the room with a Dire straights album under their arm was hilarious. I even got some flat earth dealers take on NVA because of it, only problem they didn't sell it because they were told not to.

AND you wonder why I hate the fuckers, they even compromised me, FFS Dave, come out of this shite and stay out of it.

[karatestu]

When I bought my Naim system in 1997 I didn't get a hard sell. I picked a shortlist of brands I wanted to hear in my price range and was left to my own devices much of the time. I cant remember all the systems I heard apart from Linn, Arcam and Cyrus. At the time the Naim won. The linn sounded weird, the arcam was dull dull dull and I cant remember anything about the cyrus / mission combo.

Should have tried some other dealers with different equipment.

I only ended up with a LP12 and lingo because I did not have a record player and my mate wanted rid of his for £150 in 2005. Bit his hand off. Did not know anything about turntables at the time and had not heard any other half decent models until very much later.

[Dr Bunsen Honeydew]

That was the result of the magazines and reviewers who were an integral part of the brainwash. There is no one to blame entirely, it was a combination of people who for their own reasons saw it in their interest to back it, and then their slurp depended on it so it became self perpetuation, and still is for those still embedded in the shite.

Just think for those who now have had their ears opened to NVA, who post here, which has NO brainwash, lies or bullshit behind it just music and a request to listen and decide for yourself, and other companies doing the same thing. They also existed in the 80's BUT THEY WERE KILLED OFF by the slurping flat earth dealers and magazines in an industry environment created by Ivor T, the real culprit in all this. They were given no room and no opportunity to develop. I look on it as a minor miracle I survived, only because of export, many many good companies with good product didn't, product that musically shit on Linn and Naim kicked into the dust by inferior overpriced nonsense. Also many seriously brilliant products being produced in what was the heyday of Japanese high end product denied to you, denied to your music.

There are times in this country when we still see ourselves as superior because we are British, we aren't. Yes we can make good stuff but we are also very open to being bullshitted by snobbish overtones and bandwagons. The two biggest examples and the two biggest lumps of crap that have dominated our hif-fi for decades BBC speaker design bullshit and the Flat Earth brainwash.

[CN211276]

I auditioned the Rega Planar 3 against the LP12 on a Saturday in April 1983 at Studio 99, Swiss cottage. Both decks had the same Rega S shaped arm, can't remember the cartridge. The amplifier was the NAD 3020 and the speakers were Boston stand mounts. I deliberately wanted the ancillary equipment to be budget as the magazines were assuring (brainwashing) everyone that the LP12 wiped the floor with the competition through budget amps and speakers. In no way was the LP12 superior and someone I was with, an owner of a Rega Planar 2, concurred with my opinion. The dealer, or salesman, was not best pleased and raised questions about the albums I brought with me and my taste in music. Looking back I wish I had the opportunity to compare the LP12 with a Japanese direct drive. But according to the magazines these were all crap and I went along with this in my ignorance.

[_D_S_J_R_]

I used a NAD 3020A and Boston A40's on my turntable workstation, so they were quite capable of reproducing 'things' in the music. Funny, I still use the 'tune dem' approach in my listening and that's why I like NVA amps so much.... Interestingly, some JBL 4367's I heard a week or two back did this well also with no smudging (the other smaller JBL's on show weren't connected sadly)...

[SteveTheShadow]

My LP12 and Naim amps, made 99% of my record collection unlistenable.
You were expected to listen to "Private Investigations" from Dire Straits "Love Over Gold"
That was the only Dire Straits album it would play.

" SSSSSSTHix Blade KniFFFFe" off their first LP, didn't do anything for me,
neither did The "fine coal miner, for the N SSSSSSSTHZeee Bee that was" float my boat either.

Seriously...."Love Over Gold" and a few undemanding Larry Carlton and Earl Klugh records worked. No doubt others will come up with other records that did the flat earth thing, but still, what you were able to listen to was severely restricted.
Stray out of that walled garden and the whole sham was exposed. The shame of it is, was that I was so brainwashed I blamed the records rather than the equipment.

Off The Wall on an LP12/Akito/K18
Gonna rock with you yeah (all night)
Danth you into (sthhhhunlight)

Thriller, same turntable
Billie Jean isthh not my lover, sssshe's justht a girl who claims that I am the one
But the kid is not my sssthon followed by ear shredding descending violin figure.

This godawful noise is forever burned into my aural memory.

In November 1985 I got a bit of night shift overtime when I worked for BT and with some of the proceeds, went to Tandy and bought myself a Realistic CD1000 CD player with "Tri Spot Pickup Servo System" for £400. Even through the Naim amp it destroyed the LP12.
I listened to nothing but CD for the next decade. It was glorious in comparison