JPW Sonatas

[Dr Bunsen Honeydew]

I have done you rejected it, your mind is not open enough, all you have done is troll the forum. You claim to have understanding of the science, well where is your understanding of mass damping, nothing in isolation is a full answer, it is process with a guidance, nothing more, see https://hifisubjectivist.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=48781

I never run away I avoid eeediots.

[Helen Bach]

ah, that old 'mass damping' thing! Well, science will tell you that mass doesn't damp, it just attenuates amplitude, thus not dissipating energy. The big problem, or one of them, is getting rid of the unwanted energy, quickly, which is where damping comes in, not mass! So called 'mass dampers' are used in LARGE buildings, and really are inertial dampers, which incorporate dampers to dissipate the energy, the mass, on its own, won't.

If mass was the answer, bolting every bit of hifi kit to the nearest wall/building/mountain would seem to cure all ills, it obviously doesn't.

Idiots? Is that someone who has the audacity to disagree? Forum rule No. 1 no ad hominem

[IPNIGHTLY]

I believe Helen is an active member of PFM and is of the opinion that science / theory has all the answers and to hell with what it actually sounds like.

I think that Helen has possibly been told to post here by one of the other arm chair experts that reside there (i.e Fatpoopy, Ywanker or bitch). This forum would be a silly place to come to and spout such objectivist views don't you think.

[Dr Bunsen Honeydew]

This is getting pointless, you do what you want, you haven't come here for advice you have come to lecture us and *educate*, so carry on and see how you are reacted to. Everything recommended here is empiric has been done by many users, theory is largely meaningless, the only importance is your ears and your music.

AND from above you do not understand mass damping and stiffness used together to transmit energy to an earth, but that will be my last comment as you really don't want to know what I do or think, so I will no longer waste my time. I am sure as a good troll you will keep prodding, so prod away.

[Helen Bach]

no-one sent me here, I came to it by Googling 'Sonata'. I do believe that science/technology will help in suggesting a way forward. It has always served me well. Science would suggest that taking wadding out of a box would make it sound more lively, more muddled and need a little less power. That it did. Adding extra wadding tamed the (artificial) liveliness, banished the muddle, but needed a little more power. It also suggests that increasing the damping of the box walls would be a good thing, if mass and bending stiffness can be kept reasonably low, so as not to push (any) resonances (much) higher in frequency.

It depends on you point of view, science and technology will get you to the moon, mystics will need a spaceship with a steering wheel!

[Dr Bunsen Honeydew]

Steel is not damping yet another misunderstanding.

So why are you here?

[Helen Bach]

the damping factor of steel is just less than the square root of sod all. If you stick it on to 'speaker walls, all you do is increase mass and bending stiffness. There will be some damping (as you have made a new material, eg mdf/steel), so sound inside the cabinet will increase until some kind of level is reached when it will have to come out through the speaker cone, and continue to vibrate until it eventually subsides as frequencies (from the music) change. The problem is the energy that won't go away very quickly at all. Doping the cone will make it stiffer, reducing the vibrations getting through so readily, so hanging around even longer.

Transmitting vibrations is a bit of a problem. The vibrations of the box sides are mostly perpendicular to the box surface. They are not little balls of energy rolling around on the surface like lost sheep, waiting to be led to slaughter. Putting things on top of other things is OK only if the vibrating object is put on something which has a high damping factor. If not, then the amplitudes of the vibrations can be amplified many fold, at resonance. So placing your cherished .... on a piece of mdf/ply, most hard wood/plastic/all stone/all metal will really make matters worse.

Of course, if you are happy with the result, I am happy for you (really) but don't expect me to listen to it and say I like it. Horses for...

why am I here? because I wanted to know about increasing the listening pleasure of my sonatas, to get an insight into the reasoning that went into the modifications. I think I have my answer.

I will leave you with this idea, instead of using just acrylic to make 'speaker boxes, try mdf/acrylic, it has far better damping qualities than either mdf or acrylic on their own, and would probably reduce costs of production, not to mention they would sound better to those with open minds. Just don't make the box sides too thick! They have to bend a bit to damp.

No steel, no doping, just a bit of the right wadding, and you are good to go!

[savvypaul]

the damping factor of steel is just less than the square root of sod all. If you stick it on to 'speaker walls, all you do is increase mass and bending stiffness. There will be some damping (as you have made a new material, eg mdf/steel), so sound inside the cabinet will increase until some kind of level is reached when it will have to come out through the speaker cone, and continue to vibrate until it eventually subsides as frequencies (from the music) change. The problem is the energy that won't go away very quickly at all. Doping the cone will make it stiffer, reducing the vibrations getting through so readily, so hanging around even longer.

Transmitting vibrations is a bit of a problem. The vibrations of the box sides are mostly perpendicular to the box surface. They are not little balls of energy rolling around on the surface like lost sheep, waiting to be led to slaughter. Putting things on top of other things is OK only if the vibrating object is put on something which has a high damping factor. If not, then the amplitudes of the vibrations can be amplified many fold, at resonance. So placing your cherished .... on a piece of mdf/ply, most hard wood/plastic/all stone/all metal will really make matters worse.

Of course, if you are happy with the result, I am happy for you (really) but don't expect me to listen to it and say I like it. Horses for...

why am I here? because I wanted to know about increasing the listening pleasure of my sonatas, to get an insight into the reasoning that went into the modifications. I think I have my answer.

I will leave you with this idea, instead of using just acrylic to make 'speaker boxes, try mdf/acrylic, it has far better damping qualities that either mdf or acrylic on their own, and would probably reduce costs of production, not to mention they would sound better to those with open minds.

Could you post some photos of the speakers you have modified / manufactured in the way you suggest? And can we get to hear them? Bring them to a bake-off.

Or is it only a scientific theory?

[Dr Bunsen Honeydew]

Its just bollocks, it means every speaker I make and every doc mod is crap - ad hominem warning - the man is an eeediot and needs ignoring, unless he wishes to prove otherwise by showing us the results of his efforts, but that is not the point of him being here.

Trolls need to be treated as trolls. They do not deserve respect.

[Daniel Quinn]

helen fuck off and make a set of speakers , then send them to a reasonable member here for review