NVA pricing
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Re: AP10H MKII - upgrades, multiple options, introductory offer
Wrong place to make such a comment. But Richard brought a price versus performance that was undeniable. It was disruptive if you can acknowledge the term.
With massive price increases, unavoidable as I am sure they are in an effort to create a sustainable business, nva immediately falls into the category of all that Richard hated. The slurpers
With massive price increases, unavoidable as I am sure they are in an effort to create a sustainable business, nva immediately falls into the category of all that Richard hated. The slurpers
- savvypaul
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Re: AP10H MKII - upgrades, multiple options, introductory offer
Sustainable is slurping? I'm afraid that you need to get a reality check. These units would be twice the price through a dealer.2011stockdg wrote: ↑Sat Oct 19, 2019 11:07 pm Wrong place to make such a comment. But Richard brought a price versus performance that was undeniable. It was disruptive if you can acknowledge the term.
With massive price increases, unavoidable as I am sure they are in an effort to create a sustainable business, nva immediately falls into the category of all that Richard hated. The slurpers
Richard ran NVA from his bedroom, for virtually zero return. He was a one-off. Those days are gone.
The new NVA is a proper business - like it or not - we will pay tax and VAT, we rent premises, we don't skimp on parts, we don't skimp on service. It will be excellent value, but it won't be a giveaway.
Your comparison is uninformed and factually incorrect...but not entirely unexpected.
- CN211276
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Re: AP10H MKII - upgrades, multiple options, introductory offer
A look at a dealers price list is a reality check, eg Audio T.
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NVA BMU, P90SA/A80s (latest spec), Cube 1s, TIS, TISC(LS7)
Sonore OpticalRendu, Chord Mscaler & Qutest, Sbooster PSs
Network Acoustics Eno, ifi iPurifier3, AQ JB FMJ, Cisco 2940 & 2960
DH Labs ethernet, BNC & USB cables, Farnells cat 8 ethernet cable
Second System
NVA P20/ A20, Cubettes, LS3, SSP, SC
Sonore MicroRendu, Chord Mojo 2 MCRU PSs, AQ Carbon USB cable & JB FMJ
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Grado SR325e/Chord Mojo, Beyerdynamic Avetho/AQ DF Colbat
RIP Doc
NVA BMU, P90SA/A80s (latest spec), Cube 1s, TIS, TISC(LS7)
Sonore OpticalRendu, Chord Mscaler & Qutest, Sbooster PSs
Network Acoustics Eno, ifi iPurifier3, AQ JB FMJ, Cisco 2940 & 2960
DH Labs ethernet, BNC & USB cables, Farnells cat 8 ethernet cable
Second System
NVA P20/ A20, Cubettes, LS3, SSP, SC
Sonore MicroRendu, Chord Mojo 2 MCRU PSs, AQ Carbon USB cable & JB FMJ
Headphones
Grado SR325e/Chord Mojo, Beyerdynamic Avetho/AQ DF Colbat
RIP Doc
- Classicrock
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Re: AP10H MKII - upgrades, multiple options, introductory offer
That all depends what you compare with and your perception of performance in what you have heard. Also it is rather difficult to compare NVA, with so many options, to anything else. I think claiming dealer prices as double that of the new NVA is a bit of an exaggeration outside certain 'boutique' brands. There is a large variation in manufacture pricing out there with some ridiculous increases in recent years. Other brands not so until they introduce a new top range seemingly far adrift from their other products. Some of Richard's prices were give away when on offer, other's in terms of price performance could be bettered (maybe not UK manufacture). Adding silver cable everything certainly jacks costs up but many prefer the sound of copper or a hybrid. Also I wouldn't put a lot of confidence in some shops in getting the best sound from what they stocked, as you found when you auditioned your DAC. Bottom line is you never know the performance of anything until you have heard it at home for an extended period. An area were reviewers have an advantage if they are honest. NVA has one advantage in having a 30 day return policy officially but you can do that buying any kit over the internet in theory. Personally something would have to be an obvious backward step in SQ or malfunction for me to return it in the required window.
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- savvypaul
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Re: AP10H MKII - upgrades, multiple options, introductory offer
Industry standard for components is 7 to 8 times parts cost. New NVA is currently an average of 3.92.Classicrock wrote: ↑Sun Oct 20, 2019 4:37 pmI think claiming dealer prices as double that of the new NVA is a bit of an exaggeration outside certain 'boutique' brands.
Some boutique brands are 12-15.
- savvypaul
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Re: AP10H MKII - upgrades, multiple options, introductory offer
The difference being that the 'other' kit is usually still being sold at a multiplier of 7 to 8 times, whereas NVA is being sold at an average multiplier of 3.92.Classicrock wrote: ↑Sun Oct 20, 2019 4:37 pmNVA has one advantage in having a 30 day return policy officially but you can do that buying any kit over the internet in theory.
- Lindsayt
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Re: AP10H MKII - upgrades, multiple options, introductory offer
I can understand where you are coming from. And I think it's OK to have an open discussion on this.2011stockdg wrote: ↑Sat Oct 19, 2019 11:07 pm Wrong place to make such a comment. But Richard brought a price versus performance that was undeniable. It was disruptive if you can acknowledge the term.
With massive price increases, unavoidable as I am sure they are in an effort to create a sustainable business, nva immediately falls into the category of all that Richard hated. The slurpers
I will freely admit that I have a vested emotional interest in NVA continuing as a business. Because I think the designs of the products are too good to be resigned to the dustbin of history. As well as my personal admiration and respect for Richard Dunn.
Do you have a solution? A way for prices to be reduced back close to 2018 pricing levels - without the business going bankrupt?
I don't.
And the level of current mark-up - combined with the excellence of Richard's designs - makes NVA really good value for money when compared to other brand new amplifiers.
Not to mention all the special deals on trade-ins etc.
It's clear that NVA is still run on a cost plus basis.
It's clear that NVA pricing still does not include a dealer mark-up.
I think that if Richard were able to comment from beyond the grave, that he'd say something along the lines the lines of "You eediots took me for granted and didn't realise what I was sacrificing in order to give you the products that I did for the prices that I did."
And whilst he was doing this, what thanks did he get? He got some thanks from his customers, and he got a load of wide of the mark personal insults from people elsewhere on the web.
- George Hincapie
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Re: AP10H MKII - upgrades, multiple options, introductory offer
But the design of those boutique items is exceptional; they aren't boring black plastic boxes.savvypaul wrote: ↑Sun Oct 20, 2019 4:56 pmIndustry standard for components is 7 to 8 times parts cost. New NVA is currently an average of 3.92.Classicrock wrote: ↑Sun Oct 20, 2019 4:37 pmI think claiming dealer prices as double that of the new NVA is a bit of an exaggeration outside certain 'boutique' brands.
Some boutique brands are 12-15.
There are two elements here; how something looks and how something sounds. Above a certain price level, the acceptance of which is different for each of us, it isn't enough for a product to simply perform. It has to create a pride of ownership; exquisite craftmanship and design. Those are factors that consumers use to justify a purchase.
NVA has always sat on the right side of the value/performance proposition, but that isn't so true any more. It's moved into competion with brands that include thoughtful design and construction as a key element of their offer.
For clarity, not a criticism from me; I sincerely applaud you for taking the business on. Just a suggestion that you consider whether your current product range ticks *all* of the requirements for the target customer your new pricing model now attracts.
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Linear Tube Audio MZ3
Headphones
HifiMan Sundara • HiFiMan Arya Stealth Edition • ZMF Vérité Closed Ltd (Stabilised) • ZMF Atrium Open Ltd (Hawaiian Koa) • ZMF Aeolus Ltd (Mexican Bocote)
Digital
Audial S5 • Pi2AES 2.0
Cables
Forza Audio Works • Blue Jeans • DH Labs • Periapt
Power
Farad • Tomanek
Sources
Roon • Tidal • Qobuz
- CN211276
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Re: NVA pricing
I do not think NVA kit looks unatractive anr I like black. My buying decisions are based on sound quality and value for money, although I do like boxes to be as small as possible. I see no reason for digital front end equipment to be large. Anyway, the only equipment visible when playing music are the speakers. The rack is behind a sofa and i control music selection and volume from my phone.
Main System
NVA BMU, P90SA/A80s (latest spec), Cube 1s, TIS, TISC(LS7)
Sonore OpticalRendu, Chord Mscaler & Qutest, Sbooster PSs
Network Acoustics Eno, ifi iPurifier3, AQ JB FMJ, Cisco 2940 & 2960
DH Labs ethernet, BNC & USB cables, Farnells cat 8 ethernet cable
Second System
NVA P20/ A20, Cubettes, LS3, SSP, SC
Sonore MicroRendu, Chord Mojo 2 MCRU PSs, AQ Carbon USB cable & JB FMJ
Headphones
Grado SR325e/Chord Mojo, Beyerdynamic Avetho/AQ DF Colbat
RIP Doc
NVA BMU, P90SA/A80s (latest spec), Cube 1s, TIS, TISC(LS7)
Sonore OpticalRendu, Chord Mscaler & Qutest, Sbooster PSs
Network Acoustics Eno, ifi iPurifier3, AQ JB FMJ, Cisco 2940 & 2960
DH Labs ethernet, BNC & USB cables, Farnells cat 8 ethernet cable
Second System
NVA P20/ A20, Cubettes, LS3, SSP, SC
Sonore MicroRendu, Chord Mojo 2 MCRU PSs, AQ Carbon USB cable & JB FMJ
Headphones
Grado SR325e/Chord Mojo, Beyerdynamic Avetho/AQ DF Colbat
RIP Doc
- savvypaul
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Re: AP10H MKII - upgrades, multiple options, introductory offer
Hi George,George Hincapie wrote: ↑Sun Oct 20, 2019 11:32 pmBut the design of those boutique items is exceptional; they aren't boring black plastic boxes.savvypaul wrote: ↑Sun Oct 20, 2019 4:56 pmIndustry standard for components is 7 to 8 times parts cost. New NVA is currently an average of 3.92.Classicrock wrote: ↑Sun Oct 20, 2019 4:37 pm
I think claiming dealer prices as double that of the new NVA is a bit of an exaggeration outside certain 'boutique' brands.
Some boutique brands are 12-15.
There are two elements here; how something looks and how something sounds. Above a certain price level, the acceptance of which is different for each of us, it isn't enough for a product to simply perform. It has to create a pride of ownership; exquisite craftmanship and design. Those are factors that consumers use to justify a purchase.
NVA has always sat on the right side of the value/performance proposition, but that isn't so true any more. It's moved into competion with brands that include thoughtful design and construction as a key element of their offer.
For clarity, not a criticism from me; I sincerely applaud you for taking the business on. Just a suggestion that you consider whether your current product range ticks *all* of the requirements for the target customer your new pricing model now attracts.
We could make different, highly designed cases if we stop using acrylic, but then it wouldn't be NVA, imo. The panel design is required for ease of construction and to maximise space for large transformers, stepped attenuators etc. It is minimalist but it is very well made. We plan to do more to demonstrate and explain that.
We are also investing heavily in customer service.; making it as easy and enjoyable as possible to do business with us.
You had a full system of top of the range NVA, iirc. Why did you sell it all?