It's so Ethereal

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CN211276
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Re: It's so Ethereal

Unread post by CN211276 »

Hemmo1969 wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 9:08 pm
CN211276 wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 6:05 pm
The recent discussions prompted me to do something I wish I had a long time ago as I have poor mains. I dug out a lengthy unused extension cable from a cupboard, plugged it into the BMU and connected the router and NAS. The improvement was greater than I expected in the same areas as when the hifi was connected to the BMU over three years ago. There is a greater sense of space providing a more enjoyable music experience. Obviously a lot of electrical muck had been entering the ethernet connection. What I have described is with the A20. I expect the improvement will be magnified with the upgraded A80s.

I am contemplating what further benefits will arise with an audiophile ethernet cable or a device such as the Silent Angel. It is all about eliminating muck interfering with the digital signal.
Interesting point this, I once asked Richard about plugging my other electrical apps in my BMU (streamer/NAS) and he always seamed to say ‘don’t do it’ ??
You’ve got me thinking now I need to actually try it. Have a socket left spare on the BMU seams a waste :)
I recall asking Richard if I should plug my PC into the BMU as it was my streaming source at the time. He was not sure if it would be of benefit and it was my decision. The PC was already plugged into a eight socket extension which I plugged into the BMU. The thought of plugging in the router/hub situated some distance away did not cross my mind.

The A80s take up two sockets in the BMU with two extension leads fitted to the others. The Phono 1 has now been moved from the BMU to the eight socket extension. The BMU has definetly cleaned up what the router/hub feeds to the jitterbug connected to the streamer.
System: DC Blocker, NVA BMU, Cisco 2960G, Sonore MicroRendu/MCRU PS, AQ JB, ifi iPurifier 3, Chord Mscaler, Chord Qutest/MCRU PS, NVA P90SA Mk2, NVA A80s Mk3, NVA Cube 1s, NVA TSCS, NVA TIS, Blue Jeans dual BNC, AQ Carbon USB, Cat 8 ethernet.
HP:Grado SR 325e, Chord Mojo, AQ Carbon.
Analogue: Rega Planar 3, Denon DL-110, NVA Phono 1, NVA SSP.
Second System:NVA P20, NVA A20, NVA Cubettes, NVA LS3, NVA SSC, Arcam Miniblink or Mojo.
Out:Oppo PM3, AQ DF Red, ifi OTG.

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Re: It's so Ethereal

Unread post by Fretless »

Lindsayt wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 9:57 pm
Now that's what I call a switch (pulls out a Cisco 48 port 3500 series) :shock:


Image
This is one of those 'look, mine's bigger than yours' sort of moments ...
.... a case of quantity over quality, perchance? :mrgreen: :guiness; :lol:
NVA: P50sa - SSP - A40 - LS6 - Cube2 - BMU
Digits: E-Medic ST-M PC + Volumio + AQ Jitterbug
DAC: TeraDak V4.5 Chameleon CD: Cambridge CXC
USB: Oehlbach XXL Masterclock + DH Labs Mirage
Ethernet: Silent Angel Bonn N8 + AQ Cinnamon
Cans: AQ NightHawk Carbon + MF XCAN v3

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Re: It's so Ethereal

Unread post by Fretless »

Did I mention I have a short AQ Forest link running from the new switch to a Pi/Allo DigiOne in my office set, which is a Topping D30, Kenwood KA660 (a monster) and Doc-mod Mission 760.

Put on PF 'Delicate Sound of Thunder' this afternoon. Talk about holographic! Bizarre! Never could imagine this little rig could sound so huge and, er, eloquent.

It's a gonna be some AQ Forest for the main system soon, very soon. Damn right.

:music-headbanger:
NVA: P50sa - SSP - A40 - LS6 - Cube2 - BMU
Digits: E-Medic ST-M PC + Volumio + AQ Jitterbug
DAC: TeraDak V4.5 Chameleon CD: Cambridge CXC
USB: Oehlbach XXL Masterclock + DH Labs Mirage
Ethernet: Silent Angel Bonn N8 + AQ Cinnamon
Cans: AQ NightHawk Carbon + MF XCAN v3

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Re: It's so Ethereal

Unread post by Lindsayt »

Fretless wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 11:02 pm
This is one of those 'look, mine's bigger than yours' sort of moments ...
.... a case of quantity over quality, perchance? :mrgreen: :guiness; :lol:
It was my first Crocodile Dundee opportunity of the decade. :violence-blades:

I'm sure I'll have others when people say "Look at my speakers" and pull out some ported bookshelves... :grin:

BTW Cisco switches aren't cheap when new, but they sell for peanuts used because so many corporates use so many of them and they upgrade them every few years, even though, on the whole they last forever.
How a business switch compares to an audiophile one, sound quality wise though could be a completely different kettle of fish.
Maybe they'd compare favourably to an audiophile one, maybe not. Maybe they'd compare favourably after modding the power supply, maybe not.

Edit: and these audiophile switches, what's inside them? Surely it'll be just some mass produced circuit board put inside a fancy case? And then sold with a better power supply than cheapo hubs or switches?
Because it'd take a large amount of resources to come up with a switch circuit board from scratch.

I'm smelling a huge possible opportunity to get something that sounds at least as good by going down the used Cisco business switch route (possibly modded) for £10 to £60 compared to the £hundreds for these audiophile switches...

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Re: It's so Ethereal

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Re: It's so Ethereal

Unread post by Fretless »

My installation(s) are now primarily network streaming audio systems - and a single, relatively affordable device that has them ALL sounding from better to ridiculously better is not something I would regard as Snake Oil.

The principle is simple. Computer networks are noisy, data gets transmitted properly but junk comes alongside. Ditch the EM junk and you just have the data.

In the video from Hans Beekhuyzen he mentions hearing less of a difference when using expensive, High-end audio streaming devices. These probably have built-in circuitry that does the filtering that the SA network switch does.

My Tinkerboard / Pi / Sonos players do not have any such filtering and so are easily affected by any disturbances in the data transmission cabling. This is also why they sound so much better when the network links are cleaned up.

Rant over.

Just got back in from ordering a cable (!) from my friendly local store, Sowell HiFi in Gorinchem. Mentioning to Arnold, the owner, that there is no distribution for the Silent Angel in the UK he said he would be glad to help anyone wanting to get one shipped over. He can be reached via: info@sowell.nl
NVA: P50sa - SSP - A40 - LS6 - Cube2 - BMU
Digits: E-Medic ST-M PC + Volumio + AQ Jitterbug
DAC: TeraDak V4.5 Chameleon CD: Cambridge CXC
USB: Oehlbach XXL Masterclock + DH Labs Mirage
Ethernet: Silent Angel Bonn N8 + AQ Cinnamon
Cans: AQ NightHawk Carbon + MF XCAN v3

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Re: It's so Ethereal

Unread post by CN211276 »

High res streaming is reletively new and we are still on a learning curve. There is no doubt that a lot of junk gets into the signal path and degrades what we hear. This is something we are not aware of unless it is removed. Any device that claims to remove some of this junk cannot be dismissed as snake oil. We are not talking about audiofool fuses and mains leads. The AQ Jitterbug has been dismissed as snake oil but it makes quite a difference to my digital source which cannot be described as low cost. The audible effects of such devices cannot be measured, hence they recieve a bad press from objectivists. The SA is a product fromi what appears to be a reputable US IT company. I have a feeling that in this digital age IT companies could have more influence in raising standards of music reproduction than hifi companies. There is a lot to be said for source first post flat earth. I have looked at the many used Cisco industrial switching devices on Ebay selling cheaply which are expensive new and wonder what effect they would have. I will keep an open mind and watching brief, my priority being a high quality ethernet cable.
System: DC Blocker, NVA BMU, Cisco 2960G, Sonore MicroRendu/MCRU PS, AQ JB, ifi iPurifier 3, Chord Mscaler, Chord Qutest/MCRU PS, NVA P90SA Mk2, NVA A80s Mk3, NVA Cube 1s, NVA TSCS, NVA TIS, Blue Jeans dual BNC, AQ Carbon USB, Cat 8 ethernet.
HP:Grado SR 325e, Chord Mojo, AQ Carbon.
Analogue: Rega Planar 3, Denon DL-110, NVA Phono 1, NVA SSP.
Second System:NVA P20, NVA A20, NVA Cubettes, NVA LS3, NVA SSC, Arcam Miniblink or Mojo.
Out:Oppo PM3, AQ DF Red, ifi OTG.

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Re: It's so Ethereal

Unread post by slinger »

I read an article a couple of days ago which suggested flat ethernet cables, which are becoming more popular, attract more noise than the traditional round cabling. There is a logical reason given for this, in that the geometry of rounded cables is such that it comprises of twisted pairs which are then twisted about themselves to reduce crosstalk. Flat cable, similarly, has twisted pairs, but obviously, they aren't twisted around each other due to the constraints of a flat cable's shape. Where it all gets a bit wobbly, to me at least is that although round ethernet cables will have a layer of shielding between the sheath and the (also insulated) wires some flat cables have insulation around each individual twisted pair. Mind you, that was solely talking about Cat6/6a ethernet. When you start in on Cat7 or even Cat8...

Yes, it's complicated, and there is still loads we don't know (yet) but we're learning as we go, and that's why forums like this are invaluable for passing on the little bits of knowledge we accumulate along the way.

Simply dismissing ideas as :Bllocks: because they don't fit into one's hi-fi belief system and without experiencing (or not) the results for one's self or without offering up any proof, scientific or even anecdotal, to back up why someone could not have heard what they've just reported hearing serves no purpose.
Amps - NVA P50, A30, A40, Stanislav Palo Tube Headphone Amp BB 85
Speakers - Monitor Audio Silver RX2
Cables - NVA LS1+LS3, SSC, Gotham S/PDIF, IBRA Optical
Digital - NAD C516BEE, SONY ST-SDB900 DAB TUNER, TEAC UD-H01 DAC
Analogue - Pro-Ject Debut Carbon Esprit SB, Graham Slee Gram Amp 2 Phono
Cans - Grado SR80, ATH-M50X

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Re: It's so Ethereal

Unread post by Fretless »

The cable I ordered today is an AQ Cinnamon 5m Ethernet link for the Tinkerboard on the main system.

Hope it's in soon. :dance:
NVA: P50sa - SSP - A40 - LS6 - Cube2 - BMU
Digits: E-Medic ST-M PC + Volumio + AQ Jitterbug
DAC: TeraDak V4.5 Chameleon CD: Cambridge CXC
USB: Oehlbach XXL Masterclock + DH Labs Mirage
Ethernet: Silent Angel Bonn N8 + AQ Cinnamon
Cans: AQ NightHawk Carbon + MF XCAN v3

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Re: It's so Ethereal

Unread post by Fretless »

Also had a thought ('another one??') - we now take for granted that 'dirty mains' affects SQ in audio systems. How different is that from the effects currently becoming noticeable from network and USB links?
NVA: P50sa - SSP - A40 - LS6 - Cube2 - BMU
Digits: E-Medic ST-M PC + Volumio + AQ Jitterbug
DAC: TeraDak V4.5 Chameleon CD: Cambridge CXC
USB: Oehlbach XXL Masterclock + DH Labs Mirage
Ethernet: Silent Angel Bonn N8 + AQ Cinnamon
Cans: AQ NightHawk Carbon + MF XCAN v3

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