Different t/t drive types - which is 'best'?

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Vinyl-ant
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Re: Different t/t drive types - which is 'best'?

Unread post by Vinyl-ant »

Not all belt drives are created equal, neither are idlers or dd decks for that matter.
There are fantastic examples of each. As an example, a Yamaha pf800 is about the only belt drive deck I would buy tomorrow. It has DC motor and a very heavy platter about a third heavier than an lp12 platter and bearing. And it has high torque. It also has its own odd arm. But its sound is completely different to most belt drives, almost direct drive like.
I have a thing for direct drives, I have 3 here at the moment. The one off dual I have built is something special, the dual Eds 1000 motor is unique. It also has a heavy platter. And a heavy inner platter. It's platter and inner platter are somewhere around the weight of an lp12 platter and inner platter, maybe a little heavier. It has overlapping drive coils, that create overlapping magnetic fields which make it incredibly smooth running because the magnetic field strength is maintained at close to constant as as each coil fires, the preceeding one is falling off at almost the same rate as the other is rising. Other configurations exhibit a 'gap' in the field strength as one coil switches off and the next one switches on. It doesn't sound like my other dd decks. Instead of having tight servo control it has fairly light servo control, flywheel effect and higher than normal torque.
My jbe has a fairly heavy platter, not a great deal of torque and fairly stiff servo control.
The jvc has a relatively light platter and heavy servo control as it is quartz locked. The heavy servo control subs in for torque to keep it stable which works fine.
For idlers I have the big lenco and a 301.
The lenco has high torque and heavy platter, the 301 has slightly less torque and lighter platter.
The idler on the 301 is horizontal, the one on the lenco is vertical.
The vertical idler gives a better top end but not so wide Soundstage due to the way motor vibration is transferred at 90 degrees to the record so affects the vertical motion of a stylus more than the lateral. the 301 has a wider Soundstage but rougher top end as it transfers vibration laterally, affecting lateral stylus motion more than vertical
Me, I marginally prefer the lenco to the 301.
The common theme for me is torque. Torque gives the deck control. I think it also means pitch stability is better because it isn't affected in an abrupt manner by external forces such as stylus drag, belt stretching on the side that is pulling and contracting on the side that is pushing, or traction loss of the idler due to contaminants on the drive surfaces.
Torque and flywheel effect smooth out momentary drive fluctuations, tight servo control stamps on it abruptly. Flywheel effect and torque go hand in hand for me, flywheel effect on its own coupled with a weedy motor means the control isn't there and the platter can run away, the motor can't control it
I much prefer smooth to abrupt
There is no best way to drive a platter round and round, there are several least worst sets of compromises.
Those compromises are what give rise to the characteristics of the decks

Just my thoughts on the question, might be a load of old bollocks
These users thanked the author Vinyl-ant for the post (total 3):
karatestu (Sun Jun 28, 2020 7:38 am) • Berty bass (Sun Jun 28, 2020 1:15 pm) • nilsatisnisioptimum (Mon Jun 29, 2020 9:18 am)
A load of old shite

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Re: Different t/t drive types - which is 'best'?

Unread post by Lindsayt »

Berty bass wrote:
Sat Jun 27, 2020 10:37 pm
Lindsayt wrote:
Sat Jun 27, 2020 8:27 pm
Get a Pioneer Exclusive P3 or P3a. Then compare that to any belt drive you can get your hands on.

The proof of the pudding is in the eating.
Not the most practical of suggestions, if I may say...
They cost less than brand new Akurate level LP12's and they won't depreciate.
A Pioneer Exclusive would be a sound investment. It would be an addition to your net assets.

There are other well engineered direct drives that can be had for less money.

Anyone can come up with surface logic arguments as to why any particular drive method is the best.
It's all a load of :Bllocks:
What counts is how any individual vinyl source sounds. And how much it cost. From that you can start working backwards and start saying which drive method appears to be best at any particular price point.

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Re: Different t/t drive types - which is 'best'?

Unread post by Berty bass »

When I said it wasn't that practical I was referring more to the fact they appear to be rarer than rocking horse s**t, at least in Europe. Seems most music fans will rarely have the chance to even hear one, let alone buy one.

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Re: Different t/t drive types - which is 'best'?

Unread post by savvypaul »

Hear a Lenco and/or a Garrard 3/401 and something like a PL71 and/or a Technics 1210.

They are real world prices and pretty easily found.
Amplification - NVA P90SA / A70s & A60
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Re: Different t/t drive types - which is 'best'?

Unread post by Classicrock »

No matter what type of TT drive system you have the sound is ultimately determined by the recording source and the quality of vinyl record mastering/cutting. The drive system and price of the deck can be relatively unimportant in proportion. Belt drives can be very competitive to direct drive with a good electronic speed control. Obviously change the belt at regular intervals or before it obviously affects performance. If I could spare £15K would probably invest in the Technics SL1000R and be done with it. It's actually something physically obtainable unlike those 30 year old high end Pioneer decks. Of course they were very expensive new (much more than an LP12 which we were told was better).
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Re: Different t/t drive types - which is 'best'?

Unread post by antonio66 »

The Pioneer is certainly a good looking deck https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/EXCLUSIVE-Pi ... SwHrldymSo

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Re: Different t/t drive types - which is 'best'?

Unread post by Lindsayt »

That Northern Ireland P3 deal would be one to treat with extreme caution. The seller has 0 feedback. We all have to start somewhere, but starting with a £7k TT does raise the scam suspicions a lot.

This Tokyo P3 is the sort of deal to get on a round the world cruise, as I wouldn't trust this seller to pack it properly:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/EXCLUSIVE-Pi ... Swgitdx1tP

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Re: Different t/t drive types - which is 'best'?

Unread post by nilsatisnisioptimum »

Lindsayt wrote:
Sat Jun 27, 2020 8:27 pm
Get a Pioneer Exclusive P3 or P3a. Then compare that to any belt drive you can get your hands on.

The proof of the pudding is in the eating.
[/quote]

Had to look these up and they seem to be circa £6k a go. Even as a true vinyl junkie that's a very large amount of for a bit of kit
Airlink BPS 3110S with LDA DC filter, Rega Planar 8 with Apheta 3, LDA MCJ3 phono, NVA P90 SA MK2, NVA A70 X 2, Cambridge Audio CXC, Denafrips Ares2 DAC, Meridian 204 FM tuner, Audio Technica ATH 70 cans, NVA Cubix & LS6 & Oppo 2 cans and Activo CT10 with Tidal on the move

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Re: Different t/t drive types - which is 'best'?

Unread post by antonio66 »

Lindsayt wrote:
Sun Jun 28, 2020 5:47 pm
That Northern Ireland P3 deal would be one to treat with extreme caution. The seller has 0 feedback. We all have to start somewhere, but starting with a £7k TT does raise the scam suspicions a lot.

This Tokyo P3 is the sort of deal to get on a round the world cruise, as I wouldn't trust this seller to pack it properly:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/EXCLUSIVE-Pi ... Swgitdx1tP
That one didn't show up on my ebay search, but I'm sure I've seen it recently.

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Re: Different t/t drive types - which is 'best'?

Unread post by valvesRus »

Lindsayt wrote:
Sun Jun 28, 2020 5:47 pm
That Northern Ireland P3 deal would be one to treat with extreme caution. The seller has 0 feedback. We all have to start somewhere, but starting with a £7k TT does raise the scam suspicions a lot.
I sent the seller an Ebay message yesterday :----

"Hi, I have a friend in your area, can I arrange for him to come and view this item please ?"

And, as yet, I've had no reply. Make what you will of that.

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