What's in an enzyme.

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savvypaul
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Re: What's in an enzyme.

Unread post by savvypaul »

When I've used L'art du Son with my Okki Nokki, I've rinsed with de-ionised water before vacuuming. The forming of 'solids' in the bottle is off putting, for sure.

A few LPs that I cleaned with an IPA solution that was once enthusiastically promoted by one of the Hi-Fi World writers have deteriorated quite obviously over the years, so I avoid solutions with IPA.

I've seen that SQ (Simon), who sometimes posts here, has launched an enzyme based cleaner. I may give that a try.
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Re: What's in an enzyme.

Unread post by Vinyl-ant »

the rinse water i tried is ro/di water
I fitted a ro/di filter a couple of months ago which is for the marine fish tank we have, and initially wondered if the water could be used as a base for a cleaning solution such as l'art du son.
I read somewhere to rinse off discs with distilled water after cleaning so i tried the rodi water and i think it made a bit of a difference so ill continue to do it. if i had to buy the water id probably not have tried it
A load of old shite

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Re: What's in an enzyme.

Unread post by Geoff.R.G »

guydarryl wrote:
Sat Oct 03, 2020 7:16 pm
I like science - smear some butter or margarine (if vegetarian) on your fingers. handle a record to leave finger prints and try different dwell times.
I think that the prints will still be visible after 15 minutes at 35, but give it a go.
I don't think this would be a valid test.
One doesn't normally handle records with butter (or other spread) on one's fingers. The normal contaminant would be the oils secreted by the skin and in much smaller quantities than might be the case with butter. The oils secreted by the skin are not terribly visible in the quantities normally found on a record.

The fact that there would probably be visible evidence of butter after 15 minutes at 35℃ is irrelevant as this is not the contaminant that is expected.

The experiment would still be interesting but not terribly indicative of the ability of an enzyme cleaner to remove the expected contaminant. Said contaminant is readily removed by isopropyl alcohol.

An additional consideration is that the oils expected tend to trap dust and other debris which, once loosened by the cleaner, must be safely removed.

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guydarryl
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Re: What's in an enzyme.

Unread post by guydarryl »

Geoff.R.G wrote:
Sun Oct 04, 2020 12:26 pm
guydarryl wrote:
Sat Oct 03, 2020 7:16 pm
I like science - smear some butter or margarine (if vegetarian) on your fingers. handle a record to leave finger prints and try different dwell times.
I think that the prints will still be visible after 15 minutes at 35, but give it a go.
I don't think this would be a valid test.
The oils secreted by the skin are not terribly visible in the quantities normally found on a record.

The fact that there would probably be visible evidence of butter after 15 minutes at 35℃ is irrelevant as this is not the contaminant that is expected.

The experiment would still be interesting but not terribly indicative of the ability of an enzyme cleaner to remove the expected contaminant. Said contaminant is readily removed by isopropyl alcohol.

An additional consideration is that the oils expected tend to trap dust and other debris which, once loosened by the cleaner, must be safely removed.
The poor visibility of oils secreted by the skin is precisely the reason why I suggested using a different fat/oil to highlight the effectiveness of the test.

The test would not be irrelevant, as you suggest, the enzyme is not "expecting" any particular contaminant - Lipase will just go ahead and digest fats (whether from butter, margarine or fingers, into soluble fatty acids)

Isopropyl alcohol used neat may well dissolve some fats when used neat, at the dilutions usually used with water in record cleaners it would struggle to make an emulsion, let alone dissolve the fat.
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Re: What's in an enzyme.

Unread post by Ordinaryman »

Big faux pas by me, after 40+ of buying and listening to vinyl, I thought this whole thread a p..s take. Only ever used warm tap water ,few drops of fairy liquid other brands are available rinsed with distilled water and left to dry. simple :shock:

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Re: What's in an enzyme.

Unread post by antonio66 »

Ordinaryman wrote:
Sun Oct 04, 2020 2:36 pm
Big faux pas by me, after 40+ of buying and listening to vinyl, I thought this whole thread a p..s take. Only ever used warm tap water ,few drops of fairy liquid other brands are available rinsed with distilled water and left to dry. simple :shock:
I can see nothing wrong with this, would of course be better if you used a cleaning machine vacuum. I remember DQ,, on a previous record cleaning thread saying he always used washing up liquid, this of course before he was using the ultra sonic.

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Re: What's in an enzyme.

Unread post by Geoff.R.G »

guydarryl wrote:
Sun Oct 04, 2020 1:46 pm
Geoff.R.G wrote:
Sun Oct 04, 2020 12:26 pm
guydarryl wrote:
Sat Oct 03, 2020 7:16 pm
I like science - smear some butter or margarine (if vegetarian) on your fingers. handle a record to leave finger prints and try different dwell times.
I think that the prints will still be visible after 15 minutes at 35, but give it a go.
I don't think this would be a valid test.
The oils secreted by the skin are not terribly visible in the quantities normally found on a record.

The fact that there would probably be visible evidence of butter after 15 minutes at 35℃ is irrelevant as this is not the contaminant that is expected.

The experiment would still be interesting but not terribly indicative of the ability of an enzyme cleaner to remove the expected contaminant. Said contaminant is readily removed by isopropyl alcohol.

An additional consideration is that the oils expected tend to trap dust and other debris which, once loosened by the cleaner, must be safely removed.
The poor visibility of oils secreted by the skin is precisely the reason why I suggested using a different fat/oil to highlight the effectiveness of the test.

The test would not be irrelevant, as you suggest, the enzyme is not "expecting" any particular contaminant - Lipase will just go ahead and digest fats (whether from butter, margarine or fingers, into soluble fatty acids)

Isopropyl alcohol used neat may well dissolve some fats when used neat, at the dilutions usually used with water in record cleaners it would struggle to make an emulsion, let alone dissolve the fat.
No, of course the enzyme isn't expecting any particular contaminant it is the user who is doing the expecting. Thus the user isn't expecting the enzyme to remove butter and there will be a lot more of it than the contaminant he/she is expecting the enzyme to remove. I would imagine that the enzyme chosen for a record cleaner might be different from the one chosen to wash clothes, the manufacturer doing the expecting in this case. As a control, a small amount of butter in some inconspicuous place might have value.

Anyway, my suspicion is that the amount of contaminant is very small and determining whether it has been removed, partially or entirely, very difficult. I have to put my cynical hat on and wonder whether record cleaners are actually achieving anything except to part the user from a not insignificant sum of money.

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Re: What's in an enzyme.

Unread post by CN211276 »

Geoff.R.G wrote:
Mon Oct 05, 2020 9:17 am
guydarryl wrote:
Sun Oct 04, 2020 1:46 pm
Geoff.R.G wrote:
Sun Oct 04, 2020 12:26 pm


I have to put my cynical hat on and wonder whether record cleaners are actually achieving anything except to part the user from a not insignificant sum of money.
My thoughts exactly.
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Re: What's in an enzyme.

Unread post by Daniel Quinn »

£10 for 20ml of Simons enzyme record cleaner cleaner. £7.50 for an enzyme stain remover. That's £17. 50 to change wonder to know. A bargain for knowledge.

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Re: What's in an enzyme.

Unread post by Geoff.R.G »

Daniel Quinn wrote:
Mon Oct 05, 2020 10:26 am
£10 for 20ml of Simons enzyme record cleaner cleaner. £7.50 for an enzyme stain remover. That's £17. 50 to change wonder to know. A bargain for knowledge.
What did you pay for the record cleaning machine though?

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