Building bridges

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Fretless
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Re: Building bridges

Unread post by Fretless »

A general reminder: the Ad Hom rule also applies to members of other forums (including Marco).

Any opening of the 'Cordon Sanitaire' is a positive move to reduce old frictions and should be, if not applauded, certainly appreciated.

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Re: Building bridges

Unread post by Hemmo1969 »

Fretless wrote: Tue Nov 12, 2019 1:26 pm

Any opening of the 'Cordon Sanitaire' is a positive move to reduce old frictions and should be, if not applauded, certainly appreciated.
To the above I think many will disagree, so one sided an announcement it’s almost laughable. Yes it only benefits NVA having more AoS forum mentions but not for the people who were previously banned?? I’m not BTW so have no agenda to force the change.

Out of interest who are the ‘admins’ on here? Very probably missed them being announced / introduced.

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Re: Building bridges

Unread post by slinger »

FWIW this is my personal opinion and nothing to do with the position of Admin I hold here...

It's mostly about NVA, which is a business and being able to discuss what a good product it is in the most useful and productive places, which is on forums at the moment. I daresay there are members at AoS who have never heard of NVA and haven't a clue that there was a ban. There are probably a lot more who didn't know why there was a ban but conflated NVA and HFS in a negative way because that is how it was presented to them via "backchannels". That has now been addressed and NVA can trade on something like a level playing field.

It's a long old proclamation from AoS, and to be frank, there are a few bits I don't particularly like, but it's done, and it's a positive result for NVA.
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Re: Building bridges

Unread post by Fretless »

Hemmo1969 wrote: Tue Nov 12, 2019 1:48 pm Out interest who are the ‘admins’ on here? Very probably missed them being announced / introduced.
I am one of the moderators nowadays, 'admin' is further: SavvyPaul, TerryBooth, Slinger, LindsayT and KarateStu.

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Re: Building bridges

Unread post by savvypaul »

Consigning conflict to the past is not always an easy process to embark on, so I welcome the positive step forward by Marco and his team of mods to lift the ban on discussion of NVA at Art Of Sound.

We are all enthusiasts. We have far more in common with each other than what separates us. People have the right to hold different opinions, the right to hold different beliefs and, even, the right to be 'wrong'. There is is no good reason to allow 'ego' to get in the way of pursuing a hobby.

It's not for me to tell Marco how to run his forum. It's not for me to tell Marco who he can allow to be a member of his forum. Any conditions attached to the lifting of the ban are Marco's to decide.

My concern is HFS, and I want this to be a place that is welcoming of differing views and experiences, so, as a further gesture of reconciliation, I extend a 'Day 1' amnesty to any AOS members who may have been caught up in previous conflict between the two forums. Assuming you play by the rules of the forum, you will be welcome and judged only on what you post from now on.

Richard showed admirable intolerance in removing from his designs anything that he believed impacted negatively on our musical enjoyment...but NVA does not need to use intolerance of other enthusiasts as a marketing tool. We will stand on the sound quality, the component and build quality, the reliability and longevity of the designs, combined with approachability and professional service. I trust that all those who believe in the NVA design ethos will welcome today's announcement at AOS and will choose to prioritise the future of NVA over any nostalgia for inter-forum conflict.
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Re: Building bridges

Unread post by NSNO2021 »

As a 20+ year user of NVA but newcomer to the forum I know nothing of the history. Naturally I welcome any opportunity to spread the NVA philosophy but I have to say that the tone of the announcement was rather headmaster to very naughty child and as such lacked the grace and goodwill normally seen in truces. Let's hope the guy does mean well and his tone is simply how he is with everyone.
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Re: Building bridges

Unread post by montechristo358 »

yes thats pretty much Marcos tone, disappointed he had to have one last dig at Richard
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Re: Building bridges

Unread post by Hemmo1969 »

Fretless wrote: Tue Nov 12, 2019 2:20 pm
Hemmo1969 wrote: Tue Nov 12, 2019 1:48 pm Out interest who are the ‘admins’ on here? Very probably missed them being announced / introduced.
I am one of the moderators nowadays, 'admin' is further: SavvyPaul, TerryBooth, Slinger, LindsayT and KarateStu.
Thank you

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Re: Building bridges

Unread post by savvypaul »

I've deleted a couple of posts that were probably ad-hom...and subsequent posts that lost context as a result
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Re: Building bridges

Unread post by Lindsayt »

Fretless wrote: Tue Nov 12, 2019 1:00 pm For those, like me, who never look at AOS, here is Marco's announcement:



*Removal of NVA/HFS ban*
Guys and gals,

Following the death of Richard Dunn, and after much discussion and deliberation with all necessary parties, we have decided to lift the ban on discussing NVA and the HFS forum. but only under the following conditions, which Paul Tiernan (new owner of NVA and HFS) is aware of and has agreed to:

1) That initially it will be for a six-month trail period only, as discussing NVA, on AoS, has historically always been contentious and ended in acrimony.

The 'poisoned chalice' nature of NVA-related threads was one of the main reasons why the ban was introduced in the first place, and that situation may not have changed significantly, even though RD is no longer with us. Some ill feeling may still exist towards the company, as RD made many enemies during his time on forums (and before), so even now he's gone, he'll always be intrinsically linked with it and the ill feeling he created.

2) That if discussing NVA becomes problematic and laborious to moderate (due to the above), the ban will be immediately, and permanently, reintroduced.

3) That all members of HFS currently (and justifiably) banned from AoS will remain so, and also indefinitely.

4) That no active promotion of NVA, in the form of a trade account being opened by someone representing NVA, or otherwise, will be permitted.

5) Anyone caught shilling for NVA, on AoS, or even remotely suspected of such, will be removed immediately and the ban permanently reintroduced.

6) Any member of HFS caught slagging off AoS, any of its members or me, on HFS, and which is seen to be tolerated by HFS management, will result in the ban being permanently reintroduced, so it will be up to the admin and moderators of HFS to ensure that that doesn't happen.

7) Discussing HFS and linking to relevant hi-fi discussions there (or other suitable content), if necessary, will be permitted on AoS, as will ALL relevant discussion of NVA equipment and cables.

However, please note this in particular:

ANY MEMBER OF AOS GUILTY OF USING THIS OPPORTUNITY TO 'RAKE OVER OLD COALS', AND CAUSE AGGRAVATION, ETC, WILL IMMEDIATELY BE BANNED FOR A MINIMUM OF SIX MONTHS, OR INDEFINITELY, DEPENDING ON THE SEVERITY OF THE OFFENCE.

NO FURTHER WARNINGS OF THAT NATURE WILL BE GIVEN.

That's it. Removal of the ban will *solely* be to allow members of AoS, who own NVA gear and/or wish to discuss it and/or the company in some way, to do so. It will serve no other purpose, other than hopefully also to improve relations in future between AoS and NVA/HFS.

It's time to move on, folks, as life is really too short! So thanks in advance for your co-operation

Marco.
Whilst we can all have our own personal opinion on the tone and the details of this announcement, I think that this is a positive step forward in the field of UK hi-fi forum politics.

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