Sell the sizzle, not the sausage

[terrybooth]

Not sure that I should start this one, but here goes.

The title is a popular maxim amongst sales people and a guess it could be taken to referring to the provision of pure blarney (since I am writing the on Patrick's day) or good customer service in the selling of product. Another variant is the idea that the salesman sells himself, not the product.

Now we all need stuff and most people who live now on the earth don't make everything for themselves since they stopped being hunter-gatherers (although still it's reckoned that the majority of people who ever lived, lived as hunter-gatherers). But morally (since I'm writing on a Sunday in a vaguely Christian country) what do we feel is right?

Could we all be commercially self-sufficient, working for ourselves? How do we get the balance between what we need and what the large commercial organisations which dominate the world today want us to have or want to take off us? Clearly, these organisations can't have it all their own way and arguably anarchy is the way to counter it however, both are fairly extreme positions so how do we get the balance?

[Dr Bunsen Honeydew]

I don't think all but most employment will be on line eventually and will be very low hours and just providing individual skills. Machines will make machines and *do* things, human will oversee them and manage the companies, which will be as easy on line as off. More commerce will become to do with concept, entertainment, hobby related as we get more time. I see eventually (and not so far off IMO) us having an on line value unit as opposed to money and eventually not even that, the provision of things according to need. But that is much further off, if we survive that long. We are still in the throws of "big is best", but underlining this is a protest movement to small, both will have their place. The thing I am looking forward to is kicking out all the middlemen (it will come). If we could do that tomorrow the world financial problems / crisis would end immediately.

[terrybooth]

Everyone online? Well that seems to be the way it's all going. However, there are some gotchas for organisations. There's the chap who worked in support who subcontracted his job to someone in China - sent all his authentication stuff out there - then went on to get another job and did the same and so on until he had four jobs - all being done by someone in China.

Then there's Yahoo, who has ordered all of its workers to get back into the office within twelve months or loose their jobs.

For me, one hope is that in the online world, because people will in in a certain area, and not commuting, a new sense of community is developed rather than having vast areas of expensive building which are basically not occupied in the day and other areas of expensive building which is not occupied at weekends.

[Dr Bunsen Honeydew]

Bringing it back to hi-fi for a mo. Forums are made up of middlemen trying to promote themselves or things they sell, and end users. I seem to be just about the only person who actually makes things who posts.

The only people I give respect to are people who make stuff and people who use stuff, the rest are basically scum!

[terrybooth]

So, apart from here, how do we get the sausage without the sizzle? (Which, in a more roundabout way, was what I was trying to ask at the top). And, to strain the metaphor, which bit of the sizzle do we not want?

For me, it's all the fake 'sizzle' but spotting the fake is sometimes a little difficult.

[Dr Bunsen Honeydew]

If you want to buy something then contact the person who makes it, he can only tell you to go away!!

If they were bombarded with phone calls and emails everyday it would soon make them

[jammy395]

Yep without the Middlemen, the world would be a better place indeed.....
They will eventualy be squeezed out, but not overnight unfortunatley.....

[Daniel Quinn]

There is a certain amount of economic naivety going on here , the starting point for this discussion is what is , what already exists . There is little point in discussing what is theoretically possible by ignoring what is . As Karl said the point of theory is to change the world.

What exists is a country of 60 million people in a global economy

Whilst the docs economic model is fine for NVA and should be more widely adopted , for a plethora of reasons it is simply not possible to base a whole economy on everyone working for themselves and direct selling products or services to others .It should also be noted that Docs economic model relies on pay pal , ebay and the standardisation of a global computer network . Whilst these are not middlemen in the sense they add no value , they do of course charge and these is reflected in the price . They are also multinational companies employing thousands of people . He also relies upon component suppliers who probably could not sustain a similar economic model .

Notwithstanding these anomalies to the model , Health care , transportation , construction , energy generation , food manufacture and distribution education , government and banking must be organised on a nationwide and or multinational basis , it is laughable to suggest these goods and services could be provided by local independent direct sellers .

Some products are popular they sell millions daily ,weekly or monthly . You cannot sell these directly or without middleman . If you don’t use middlemen , then you use employers who fill the same roles as middlemen and their salary is reflected in the price .

You cannot even restrict the argument to the manufacture of products . How would such a model cater for the making/selling satellites , motor vehicles and Boeing 747’s to name a few .

Another thing to ponder is the price of human fraility . A lot of jobs only exist because of human beings propensity to be dishonest . From simple cashiers in shops to whole criminal justice system . The economist once postulated that 6 out of 10 jobs would disapper if people were inherently and unfailingly honest . Cant quite see this myself , but a fair few would .

[Dr Bunsen Honeydew]

So do it where it is or potentially is possible and wait for the world to change as it surely will. For instance, why can't cars be direct sold - no reason apart from the first company to start it will suffer and they are scared. Why line the pockets of car showroom owners and their salesmen, they serve no purpose. Would any of you buy a used car from a used car dealer, no of course not unless you are daft, you buy on ebay or similar. No middlemen, no bullshit, just reality.

Cars are our second most valuable purchase after house, what would an overall 20-30% drop in new car prices do for the economy - look what the car scaping scheme did, this would be far bigger, more employment in the factories, maybe even car salesmen having to build cars If ever there was a waste of space and food on this planet then it is car salesmen.

ADMIN EDIT - and BTW these type threads should be in EOTW, the chitchat in the title here is for admin and intro.

[Daniel Quinn]

I take your point re car salesman But the manufacture would still need to be massive and global , cars are a technical tour de force and it is estimated a new model can costs upon to £500 million in R&D , But they could be direct sold . Indeed the model these days is changing to more of a supermarket model were many manufactutrres can be bought on the same site .