European Union

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Dr Bunsen Honeydew
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Re: European Union

Unread post by Dr Bunsen Honeydew »

BNP is that the British version of the SNP :lol: Parties like that ;) attract all the nutters, and I am nutty enough thank you.

There is the EDL (English Defence League), you should start a SDL Jammy to keep the Sassenachs oot.

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Classicrock
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Re: European Union

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If people didn't vote UKIP the main parties would be still pushing immigration under the carpet and calling anyone who is anti immigration a racist. UKIP isn't a fad and voting for them is likely the way to change the mainstream parties or a t least the Conservatives. just watching Question time and the politicians are still banging on about multiculturalism. That is the main problem with the country - immigrants should integrate and become British, otherwise please piss off. There has been a conspiracy between politicians and employers to bring in cheap labour from Europe and keep wages down. We have dropping productivity because employers think cheaper to pay min wage rather than reward for effort (disappearance of bonus schemes ). Lots of highly inefficient cheap labour.

We should encourage the fanatics to go and fight for Isis then we can get rid of them for good as likely they will get hit by American bombs. Most won't come back because in the long run we will have to send in our own troops who will deal with them. Another sensible course of action would be to send all the Pakistani child abusers back to Pakistan (even if born here) once they compete their sentences. Also how about taking criminal action against those trying to take over schools and indoctrinate and outlaw Sharia law. Only one law in the uk and everyone should know they have to comply. Lots more problems related to that community - car whiplash scam is worst round Birmingham - guess why.
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Dr Bunsen Honeydew
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Re: European Union

Unread post by Dr Bunsen Honeydew »

The world is being driven to extreme views, it is understandable that a lot of people meet extremism with extremism. We are at the moment in the period of appeasement with the Muslim nation, history doesn't show good results from appeasement when faced with extremism. It strikes me as a new war not like the old wars, it is a war against a totology (new word) more than an ideology, and it is a totology of madness and brainwash as equally mad as Hitler's Germany. Remember most Germans just kept their heads down and went with the flow. I really do hope the majority of Muslims don't make the same mistake.

Should we deny hope in the face of these lunatics, well of course not, every nation and peoples has lunatics, the answer is never let them run the asylum.

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Re: European Union

Unread post by zebbo »

Dr Bunsen Honeydew wrote:The world is being driven to extreme views, it is understandable that a lot of people meet extremism with extremism. We are at the moment in the period of appeasement with the Muslim nation, history doesn't show good results from appeasement when faced with extremism. It strikes me as a new war not like the old wars, it is a war against a totology (new word) more than an ideology, and it is a totology of madness and brainwash as equally mad as Hitler's Germany. Remember most Germans just kept their heads down and went with the flow. I really do hope the majority of Muslims don't make the same mistake.

Should we deny hope in the face of these lunatics, well of course not, every nation and peoples has lunatics, the answer is never let them run the asylum.
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Welder
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Re: European Union

Unread post by Welder »

Most of the serious studies ( The Daily Mail isn’t one of these) I’ve read regarding immigration conclude that overall it’s of economic benefit to the host nation.

I would agree that the UK has infrastructure problems but this has been the case for many years now.
Germany, at the time of unification absorbed an entire country; not without problems, and still managed to remain the leading economic power in the EU.
It seems to me that there is more than one approach to the UK’s infrastructure problems and shutting the borders and consequently getting thrown out of the EU I believe would send an already fragile economy into a nosedive. :doh:

How about investment in the infrastructure? How about a higher rate of tax for the high wage earners? Maybe discourage tax avoidance (shoot Pinky? :clap: )
How about limiting share dividends, or dare I mention, some reversal of the asset stripping privatisation of our essential services.
It seems there isn’t a shortage of wealth in the UK, it’s how it’s distributed.

As it stands, being in the EU gives me the right ( being subjects of the Queen some of you may not recognise the term right) to go and live in any other member country; it also gives you lot the right to do the same. Go on, have a go at being an immigrant yourselves. ;)
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Dr Bunsen Honeydew
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Re: European Union

Unread post by Dr Bunsen Honeydew »

You miss the point Welder. We may have an underinvested infrastructure, but it is being overloaded, no more like overpowered, in large parts of the country at the moment. Yes immigration is economically good if you have the space and the infrastructure to cope with it, we don't. People were moving to live in France and Spain and especially Italy before the EU. Loads of Yanks live in Europe and they are not in the EU.

Our economy will not nose dive out of the EU, IMO if in NAFTA it would nigh on double. The only reason the Yanks don't want it is they see us as a Trojan Horse for their influence in Europe, as they are scared US and EU will get into conflict without British influence in Europe. The original hypothesis was the EU as a barrier to communism. BUT an aggressively expanding communist state doesn't exist anymore at the edge of Europe, that problem has moved to the Pacific with China, which is why recent US attention has been more Pacific basin focused. BUT Ukraine has been a wake up call for everyone - the bear is back - even if no longer an ideologue but a greed and power-ologue.

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Re: European Union

Unread post by Daniel Quinn »

Closing our borders to europe will result in the Eu kicking us out .

In the short term , this will mean that companies like BMW will probably re-locate the mini production to inside Eurpoe . Other companies , honda , jaguar will also probably bugger off in the long term .

It will mean finances companies in europe who cant send their highly skilled million pound a year employees to london will relocate and london financial capital will shrink .

52% of our exports go to europe . As they years go by , our markets will become less common .rules and legislation will begin to diverge so it will become more and more of a ball ache for europeans to buy from us .

aerospace deals that rely on joint venture of french English and Germany will be buggered .

Our gdp will shrink by 4/5% points and we will be in reccession , our tax take will decrease and the defecit will return . As a little englander without the power of the Eu behind us , money lenders will be reluctant to lend us money as the possibility of default increases .

And there isnt a big wide world that will suddently take up the slack , we sell to the world what we currently can and have fairly well estblished trade agreements , there isnt any agreements out thier capable of bootsing our none Eu trade . We are not a low skilled , low price economy , which is all that america actually imports , the rest is bought internally .

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Re: European Union

Unread post by Welder »

I’ve understood the point ok Richard and I don’t disagree that the UK infrastructure is at breaking point.

Consider this; if one considers the UK as a full bucket and the tap is still running, then what the bucket can’t hold will spill out elsewhere. You can of course turn the tap off, but the bucket would still be full. It seems the nature of economic migration requires better opportunities in the host country than were available in the home country. If immigrants still find the UK an attractive proposition then it would suggest that the bucket isn’t actually full; given the majority of immigrants are seeking employment and housing if none were available they would go elsewhere.

The fact that many UK residents perceive the bucket to be full because of mainly political and media hype and don’t seem to question or investigate the truth of the matter is another problem.
As an example, many of the Polish economic migrants I knew when living in the UK have returned home or more interestingly moved on to other countries such a Canada who are currently actively encouraging immigration.
Simplistic I know but…

I thought you might like to read this Richard which does in parts touch on some of the topics in this thread.

http://bellacaledonia.org.uk/2014/11/06 ... ce-debate/
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Dr Bunsen Honeydew
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Re: European Union

Unread post by Dr Bunsen Honeydew »

Daniel Quinn wrote:Closing our borders to europe will result in the Eu kicking us out .

In the short term , this will mean that companies like BMW will probably re-locate the mini production to inside Eurpoe . Other companies , honda , jaguar will also probably bugger off in the long term .

It will mean finances companies in europe who cant send their highly skilled million pound a year employees to london will relocate and london financial capital will shrink .

52% of our exports go to europe . As they years go by , our markets will become less common .rules and legislation will begin to diverge so it will become more and more of a ball ache for europeans to buy from us .

aerospace deals that rely on joint venture of french English and Germany will be buggered .

Our gdp will shrink by 4/5% points and we will be in reccession , our tax take will decrease and the defecit will return . As a little englander without the power of the Eu behind us , money lenders will be reluctant to lend us money as the possibility of default increases .

And there isnt a big wide world that will suddently take up the slack , we sell to the world what we currently can and have fairly well estblished trade agreements , there isnt any agreements out thier capable of bootsing our none Eu trade . We are not a low skilled , low price economy , which is all that america actually imports , the rest is bought internally .
Wont happen DQ, the free market is under a separate treaty so they cannot kick us out of that so easily. If it is a temp solution I propose which can be negotiated so no company is going to move, and if EFTA and NAFTA combined as I suggested earlier they would be replaced by American companies in far greater quantity.

Mmmm American muscle cars :mrgreen: .

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Dr Bunsen Honeydew
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Re: European Union

Unread post by Dr Bunsen Honeydew »

Welder wrote:I’ve understood the point ok Richard and I don’t disagree that the UK infrastructure is at breaking point.

Consider this; if one considers the UK as a full bucket and the tap is still running, then what the bucket can’t hold will spill out elsewhere. You can of course turn the tap off, but the bucket would still be full. It seems the nature of economic migration requires better opportunities in the host country than were available in the home country. If immigrants still find the UK an attractive proposition then it would suggest that the bucket isn’t actually full; given the majority of immigrants are seeking employment and housing if none were available they would go elsewhere.

The fact that many UK residents perceive the bucket to be full because of mainly political and media hype and don’t seem to question or investigate the truth of the matter is another problem.
As an example, many of the Polish economic migrants I knew when living in the UK have returned home or more interestingly moved on to other countries such a Canada who are currently actively encouraging immigration.
Simplistic I know but…

I thought you might like to read this Richard which does in parts touch on some of the topics in this thread.

http://bellacaledonia.org.uk/2014/11/06 ... ce-debate/
Wont happen Welder, they are already living on the streets in London, go look at Calais to see what some of these people will put up with. It is not just EU immigrants but the illegals could be handled better out of the EU as we are restricted by EU rules in preventing them and deporting them. Known as the EU convention on human rights. Which is a :Bllocks: document that should never have replaced British (English and Scottish, slightly different) Common Law.

The only people who will leave will be likes of yourself, the British trying to get out of it!

Yes there will be flow both ways, but at the moment the tap is still running and if the EU stays in what in reality is recession it will continue to increase.

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