European Union

[Dr Bunsen Honeydew]

I have ALWAYS been a supporter of the union so have struggled more and more with the recent stupidity of it. I have now reached the point of thinking we are better off out of it. So what is the alternative, everyone says we should be part of EFTA with Norway and Switzerland. I would like to make a different proposal. Negotiation should start with NAFTA http://www.ustr.gov/trade-agreements/fr ... ment-nafta to join and change the name to North Atlantic Free Trade Association, and Norway should join to.

OK we put a block on free EU immigration, but there is a down side of Mexican immigration, but there are no free travel or work rights built into this trade relationship which is what the EU should have stayed as. EVENTUALLY / HOPEFULLY common sense will prevail and both EU and NAFTA can form a free trade association between them and stop this United States of Europe stupidity, which should be obvious to anyone with any brains is a great idea that WILL NOT WORK!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Dr Bunsen Honeydew]

http://www.economist.com/node/302480

[Macca]

Good to see you have finally caught up

I'm not anti-Europe or anti-European but the differences in language and culture between the UK and the rest of Europe are insurmountable. We would be better off in a trading block with the Commonwealth countries and the USA (same language and culture) rather than tying ourselves to Europe for no other reason than it is physically close to us.

[Daniel Quinn]

Both of you are off my x-mas card list .

[Dr Bunsen Honeydew]

Why DQ - just because Conrad Black and a few right wingers have been saying the same thing. For me it has nothing to do with right or left wing, it is a problem of mind set and popularity. For some reason the UK is seen as paved with Gold, and yes immigration to a degree is very good for the UK and the UK economy, and always has been, through Huguenots to Irish to Jews to Caribbean to Sikhs to Indian Hindus to Chinese. They were / are good for us and help to wake up the bloody lazy British workers. I lived in the 50's and 60's, and even though it was a comedy film "I am all right Jack" was an accurate representation of business and working practices back then. AND that was the unions and the power of the strike. But i draw the line at Romanian / Bulgarian Gypsies, who by culture see it as wrong to be employed, they *have* to steal or beg, or earn money on a cash basis (if you don't believe me you need to read about them and their history). Why do you think so many of them are selling The Big Issue. I also draw the line at a religious culture as in Muslims that teaches them they are here to take over and convert the rest of us!!! and if we can't be converted we are to be beheaded.

We have to take control of our borders again, if you think differently just take a couple of days holiday in Calais to see what is awaiting us. Or a few days holiday in the resorts in Italy, Spain and see the amount of Africans selling crap off blankets being supplied by Chinese middlemen. I love Florence (Firenza) but it has been ruined as an attraction by them.

There are too many wars and problems going on in the world today to not have control of your own borders, and as I say it used to be everyone wanted to get to the USA for some reason now (welfare state?) they all want to come here.

So solve the border problem and solve the beating up of the UK economy just because they have been stupid so cannot pull out of recession and we have, so they want us to support them in their stupidity. Take those two things away and I become a supporter of the EU and membership of it again.

[Daniel Quinn]

The immigration problem is not a bad as the media make out . Indeed except for scaremongering rubbish about taking british jobs, driving down wages and claiming benefits , I dont actually understand what the problem is .

There is nothing wrong with free trade agreements ,exciting europe however is not required .

Essentially , this fargaeesque hysteria of government from brussells , human rights acts, mass immigrants , is a chimera , it is an issue without any actual problems . The uk as problems , their origins do not lie in europe and thier solutions do not lie in extraction .

I am looking for a genuine problem whose origins are europe and the solution lies in extraction . Anybody got one ?

[Macca]

DQ likes the EU because it is at heart a Communist idea and enterprise.

The problem with integrating the UK into that is that unlike the continentals the British have never been big fans of communism or indeed any totalitarian regime thta tells them how to think or behave. It is alien to the British way of life, the 'Englishman's home is his castle' attitude.

I think this is ony just starting to really dawn on Merkel et al that no amount of propganda is going to change the British atitude. They thought that with consensus across the three parties and with time that we would start to accept the idea of an EU Socialist super-state with Napoleonic law. But it has not happened and instead UKIP is going from strength to strength. If they didn't need our money ajnd the market for their exports so badly they would kick us out tomorrow.

[Dr Bunsen Honeydew]

I traveled on the tube in the 50's and 60's and 90% of my fellow passengers were British (you could tell by manner and dress), I went to my Hospital check yesterday and over 90% of those in my tube carriage I can guarantee were not British. It has become too much DQ and England's cities are becoming ghettoed. The only places now British are the shires and villages and even that is changing. I see visible evidence I am not interested in politics or statistics.

[Macca]

I am looking for a genuine problem whose origins are europe and the solution lies in extraction . Anybody got one ?

I've got several:

1) freedom of movement/employment - although I agree the problems are exagerated there is no question that it has driven down wages. Come round my way at 2100 when the shift finishes in the distribution warehouses and see how many Poles and other eastern europeans come flooding out.

2)ECHR - granted it is a seperate entituy from the EU but membership is a necessity for membership of the EU. This is the court that allows terrorists, murderers and rapists to stay here rather than be extradited becuase they have a cat or they may get 'tortured' if extradited. Note these days 'being tortured' has a far more elastic defintition than it used to. It can now mean being shouted at for a bit.

3) Cash Money - we are a net contributor to the EU meaning that we get a lot less out than we put in. This is because the EU contains a number of 'loser countries' that we are obliged to prop up. Leave EU that is 14 million a day to spend on British people or pay off our debts.

4) Napoleonic Law - or in other words - Guilty until proved innocent. With an EAW against you the cops will come and drag you off to France where they will sling you in prison while the prosecutor builds his case. No habeus corpus there. That can happen for something as insignificant as a minor motoring offence. That's not the British way, it's inferior to what we have and we don't want it here.

[Daniel Quinn]

Doc. The dilution of a British identity in certain regions including London is a problem . But it deosnt have its origins in Europe nor its solution in leaving. It is a problem of concentration and The lack of a national identity.