U.F.O's

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Dr Bunsen Honeydew
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Re: U.F.O's

Unread post by Dr Bunsen Honeydew »

Lurcher300b wrote: Fri Nov 10, 2017 5:31 pm "Hot and Cold exist or are we inventing that."

They are just human constructs like left and right, up and down, good and evil. What exists is temperature, as in the rate the atoms are vibrating, there is no negative temperature. In the same way there is mass 1Kg of protons has the same mass as 1kg of anti protons. Everything about an anti proton is the same as a proton apart from its charge and magnetic moment, its not some mystical inverse as you may be imagining. Its just a different collection of quarks. There is no anti mass or anti gravity, or anti temperature. We are not catching up on anything from thousands of years ago, its just the old mystical ideas are becoming popular again and people are trying to give them extra credence by trying to find parallels in science.
You see we are into semantics yet again you apply the science I apply the reality - our perception. This is the problem with science it is our perception as well but people try to elevate it beyond that.

Again I ask find me a concept that doesn't have an opposite. I will never turn you into a toaist and you will never turn me into a scientist. I am not interested in theory I am not interested in equation, I am interested in what I observe, my perceptions, I judge everything on that including hi-fi i.e. subjectivist. You dismiss people who explore *their* universe with imagination, as did the people you applaud, they had to imagine a concept or theory if they wanted find it, which is why the concept is first and the proof is last, not the other way around.

It seems even at Cern they have figured this out, they find something and then start looking for its opposite as they know it must exist.

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Re: U.F.O's

Unread post by CycleCoach »

Dr Bunsen Honeydew wrote: Fri Nov 10, 2017 5:29 pm
CycleCoach wrote: Fri Nov 10, 2017 5:22 pm Hot and cold are relatives. Put one hand in a bowl of cold water, the other in hot and then put them both in warm water and see what happens.
Don't you see, that is the point! That is why the dichotomy exists.
Dichotomy was what I was trying to illustrate in my own clumsy way. With our hands now in a bowl of warm water one is feeling cold and the other hot. Is the water both hot and cold at the same time? The water is (say) 35degC but our perception of it would be giving us conflicting information from either hand.
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Dr Bunsen Honeydew
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Re: U.F.O's

Unread post by Dr Bunsen Honeydew »

Geoff.R.G wrote: Fri Nov 10, 2017 6:00 pm Hot: What do you mean by hot? Do you mean a temperature greater than you find comfortable?
Let us assume that you find 40℃ Hot. The Celsius temperature scale has 0℃ set as the melting point of Ice (the triple point of water) but the Kelvin scale has zero set at a point where all atomic movement stops so your 40℃ is ≈313K. Both the Fahrenheit and Celsius scales are based on human observations at the time.
Cold: What do you consider cold? Probably anything you find uncomfortably low?
Assuming that you find ice cold that is 0℃ or ≈273K so on one scale it looks quite hot but we describe it as cold.

Conclusion, Hot and Cold are relative but in practice any temperature above 0K is simply a measure of the activity of atoms, we know it as heat.
Sigh - I keep explaining this. Every dichotomy is a line and as an individual at any point in time you are sitting on a point on it. In one direction you will perceive and describe as yang and the other direction as yin. If you get up and move to another point on the line the Yin and Yang move with you because you are describing your current reality THAT IS THE POINT without the duality / dichotomy how would you describe your perceptions. What I don't understand is why Nick is insisting science is different, how do we communicate science, purely with equations, at some point we have to explain it. We don't have direct mind data dumps yet, so sorry you have to talk or write.

It is the perception that science is always right that irritates me, NO WRONG, in most case what people like or want is right as we are beings, not computers. Simply if I designed and built hi-fi from a scientific view point then NVA owners would not be getting the music they enjoy, you would have pot luck products like all the others because science has not caught up with what I know, because it is a reaction to *feelings* not equations. The science is basic with hi-fi your experience, perception and internal knowledge is what creates good product, not specification and the science attached to it. My proof is my product and the music it makes, I rest my case on that.

By the way the yin yang concept goes into every part of life, what do think agreement and compromise are, people aligning their yin and yang, nothing more, business and politics would not function without it.

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Re: U.F.O's

Unread post by Lurcher300b »

they had to imagine a concept or theory if they wanted find it, which is why the concept is first and the proof is last, not the other way around.
No, that’s is entirely the other way around. You are starting with a view on how you want the world to be, then you are making observations and interpreting those observations in a way that confirms your preferences. The scientific method starts with observation. Every time it starts with a observation. The hypothesis then tries to explain that observation. Once the hypothesis seems to explain those observations its then used to make predictions that have not been seen before, then those predictions are looked for, if they are found it adds weight to the hypothesis, if not then it makes it less likely to be correct. Your belief system doesn't as far as I can see make falsifiable predictions, that’s why I ignore it. if it makes you feel happy, then fine, good for you, but don’t expect me to pay any attention to it.

You ask for a example of something without a opposite, we have talked about one at length, temperature, hot cold is not a duality in the same way as having 10 pence and having 20 pence is not a duality, you could call one rich and one poor, or you could call one Fred and one Ginger, but that makes it no more of a duality than Hot and Cold.

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Re: U.F.O's

Unread post by Lurcher300b »

"it is the perception that science is always right that irritates me". I have never said that science is always right, but it includes methods to try and prevent mistakes when they happen, but in general it tends to be right most of the time, and its without doubt by far the best process we have ever created to explain the functioning of the world.

You use NVA products as some sort of proof that science is failed, and your better way is the way forward. Well, ok, how well would your better way do without the products of science that you use to build your products, just remind me what amplifying device the toaist world view has created?

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Re: U.F.O's

Unread post by Dr Bunsen Honeydew »

Lurcher300b wrote: Fri Nov 10, 2017 7:01 pm
they had to imagine a concept or theory if they wanted find it, which is why the concept is first and the proof is last, not the other way around.
No, that’s is entirely the other way around. You are starting with a view on how you want the world to be, then you are making observations and interpreting those observations in a way that confirms your preferences. The scientific method starts with observation. Every time it starts with a observation. The hypothesis then tries to explain that observation. Once the hypothesis seems to explain those observations its then used to make predictions that have not been seen before, then those predictions are looked for, if they are found it adds weight to the hypothesis, if not then it makes it less likely to be correct. Your belief system doesn't as far as I can see make falsifiable predictions, that’s why I ignore it. if it makes you feel happy, then fine, good for you, but don’t expect me to pay any attention to it.

You ask for a example of something without a opposite, we have talked about one at length, temperature, hot cold is not a duality in the same way as having 10 pence and having 20 pence is not a duality, you could call one rich and one poor, or you could call one Fred and one Ginger, but that makes it no more of a duality than Hot and Cold.
I have no belief system, I have my observed reality. Taoism has simply fitted me I have not fitted it. For me the daft thing is you keep quoting examples that are supposed to disprove what I am saying yet in my mind they are proving it, as with the above.

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Dr Bunsen Honeydew
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Re: U.F.O's

Unread post by Dr Bunsen Honeydew »

Lurcher300b wrote: Fri Nov 10, 2017 7:07 pm "it is the perception that science is always right that irritates me". I have never said that science is always right, but it includes methods to try and prevent mistakes when they happen, but in general it tends to be right most of the time, and its without doubt by far the best process we have ever created to explain the functioning of the world.

You use NVA products as some sort of proof that science is failed, and your better way is the way forward. Well, ok, how well would your better way do without the products of science that you use to build your products, just remind me what amplifying device the toaist world view has created?
I said nothing of the sort, I have never said science has failed. I am saying it has a hell of a lot of catching up to do. Without science there would be no hi-fi, now science if it wishes has to catch up with why some is better than others even though science says they are the same.

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Re: U.F.O's

Unread post by CycleCoach »

Logically speaking I don't think it's possible to support a yin/yang view of things, as although it seems quite elegant it is imperfect.

For example, what is the opposite of "something?" we could go to "nothing" which seems to work quite nicely.

Next question. What is the opposite of "nothing." Surely the answer is "everything."

And I know you could argue that I'm waffling about semantics but the reality is that conceptually there is a huge inconsistency here.
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Re: U.F.O's

Unread post by Dr Bunsen Honeydew »

Very easy to answer - something equals a point on the line between nothing and everything, that is why it is dichotomy there are the extremities but most things are just something / somewhere on that line. like warm or cool are points on the hot cold dichotomy.

Give me some more examples please.

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Re: U.F.O's

Unread post by CycleCoach »

Dr Bunsen Honeydew wrote: Fri Nov 10, 2017 8:04 pm
Give me some more examples please.
There is no opposite of "Time"

Nor is there an opposite to "Gravity"

I'm sure I could come up with more..
I think I might be in the HiFi trade.
I am not currently seeking treatment for this.
Current System: Linn LP12 Lingo Ekos Troika, NVA PHONO2 with BBPSU, NVA AP20 (White), Quad ESL 57s &/or NVA Cube3s (White)

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