KISS
- karatestu
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KISS
Keep it simple stupid
An approach that I find to have many merits and has been proven by many including myself. In can be applied to a system as a whole and within a component internally. With NVA, components within an amplifier for example are kept to the minimum, speakers have no crossover components (except tweeter protection cap & padding resistor) and preamps are just a volume pot (adjustable resistor) and input selector if needed. No bells & whistles as none are needed and in fact the products sound better without them.
If you are in to a bit of diy hifi then it is even better as you can remove stuff and dick about to your heart's content.
Over time though, one's hifi does tend to attract more boxes to it like a magnet . In the never ending pursuit of better music this often happens as more power amps are added for biamping and triamping or more power supplies are added. This in turn leads to more cables off all types (signal, DC power, AC mains leads) more space needed to house it all and increased electromagnetic fields around the place. If cost and real estate is no problem then why not, where is the harm.
You often hear of people down sizing and being perfectly happy. Not for me I don't think but the ultimate in simple would probably be one source component, phono stage if needed, integrated amp and full range driver speaker (frugal horn or such like). Three AC power cords, one or two interconnects and a pair of speaker cables. Job done. If I had to do this then it would be CDP through TIS to AP10 through TSCS into cube 3's.
As I am a DIY type then there are other options open within the equipment cases themselves. Things like removing zobel networks & output inductors (when using the correct speaker cables) , input filters, DC blocking caps (when not needed), hardwiring everything in sight, not using dc blockers, soft starts, speaker protection circuits and mains filters. I could even say going back to 15A plugs and sockets (no fuse), housing your builds in classII approved cases and getting rid of another fuse, removing any connection from signal 0V to mains earth so it is floating, using a volume pot and throwing away the active preamp and psu.
An approach that I find to have many merits and has been proven by many including myself. In can be applied to a system as a whole and within a component internally. With NVA, components within an amplifier for example are kept to the minimum, speakers have no crossover components (except tweeter protection cap & padding resistor) and preamps are just a volume pot (adjustable resistor) and input selector if needed. No bells & whistles as none are needed and in fact the products sound better without them.
If you are in to a bit of diy hifi then it is even better as you can remove stuff and dick about to your heart's content.
Over time though, one's hifi does tend to attract more boxes to it like a magnet . In the never ending pursuit of better music this often happens as more power amps are added for biamping and triamping or more power supplies are added. This in turn leads to more cables off all types (signal, DC power, AC mains leads) more space needed to house it all and increased electromagnetic fields around the place. If cost and real estate is no problem then why not, where is the harm.
You often hear of people down sizing and being perfectly happy. Not for me I don't think but the ultimate in simple would probably be one source component, phono stage if needed, integrated amp and full range driver speaker (frugal horn or such like). Three AC power cords, one or two interconnects and a pair of speaker cables. Job done. If I had to do this then it would be CDP through TIS to AP10 through TSCS into cube 3's.
As I am a DIY type then there are other options open within the equipment cases themselves. Things like removing zobel networks & output inductors (when using the correct speaker cables) , input filters, DC blocking caps (when not needed), hardwiring everything in sight, not using dc blockers, soft starts, speaker protection circuits and mains filters. I could even say going back to 15A plugs and sockets (no fuse), housing your builds in classII approved cases and getting rid of another fuse, removing any connection from signal 0V to mains earth so it is floating, using a volume pot and throwing away the active preamp and psu.
DIY FREE ZONE
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Re: KISS
Electronics novice here Stu..
Have you removed the output inductors from Les' NCC 200 amplifiers & did they improve subjective performance?
Alfi.
Have you removed the output inductors from Les' NCC 200 amplifiers & did they improve subjective performance?
Alfi.
I am in the hi-fi trade.
Status: Manufacturer.
Company Name: Analogue innovation.
Contact: a_innovation@btinternet.com
- CN211276
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Re: KISS
I thought this thread was going to be about the band.
Main System
NVA BMU, P90SA/A80s (latest spec), Cube 1s, TIS, TISC(LS7)
Sonore OpticalRendu, Chord Mscaler & Qutest, Sbooster PSs
Network Acoustics Eno, ifi iPurifier3, AQ JB FMJ, Cisco 2940 & 2960
DH Labs ethernet, BNC & USB cables, Lindy cat 6 US ethernet cable
Second System
NVA P20/ A20, Cubettes, LS3, SSP, SC
Sonore MicroRendu, Chord Mojo 2 MCRU PSs, AQ Carbon USB cable & JB FMJ
Headphones
Grado SR325e/Chord Mojo, Beyerdynamic Avetho/AQ DF Colbat
RIP Doc
NVA BMU, P90SA/A80s (latest spec), Cube 1s, TIS, TISC(LS7)
Sonore OpticalRendu, Chord Mscaler & Qutest, Sbooster PSs
Network Acoustics Eno, ifi iPurifier3, AQ JB FMJ, Cisco 2940 & 2960
DH Labs ethernet, BNC & USB cables, Lindy cat 6 US ethernet cable
Second System
NVA P20/ A20, Cubettes, LS3, SSP, SC
Sonore MicroRendu, Chord Mojo 2 MCRU PSs, AQ Carbon USB cable & JB FMJ
Headphones
Grado SR325e/Chord Mojo, Beyerdynamic Avetho/AQ DF Colbat
RIP Doc
- karatestu
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Re: KISS
Hey Alfi,
No I haven't touched them or the zobel or the input filter. I am waiting for my LS6 to arrive and I may at some point (after listening to LS6 for a while)just disconnect the 0V connection from the zobel to the power supply. I can then easily put it back on if any problems. The output inductor is a different matter and may take a bit more courage to mess about with. If a place could be selected just before the inductor to solder the output wiring to then it might be worth a go but I don't want to physically remove anything as the boards may be sold on at some point. If there is a way to tap in before it then no harm done and easily reversed. It is not something which I take lightly and I don't fully understand myself what will happen when it is removed. I must read my notes again. The input filters are more easily played with I think.
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Re: KISS
Phew!
Hmm, I thought it would be a dodgy area to tamper with. I'll leave well alone then.
Alfi.
Hmm, I thought it would be a dodgy area to tamper with. I'll leave well alone then.
Alfi.
I am in the hi-fi trade.
Status: Manufacturer.
Company Name: Analogue innovation.
Contact: a_innovation@btinternet.com
- karatestu
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Re: KISS
I am far from an expert and my knowledge is patchy.
Naim power amps don't have an output inductor but they do have a 0R22 resistor in line before the output. The zobel and output inductor are all about stability and a lot depends on what speaker cables you are using. If using NVA low capacitance cables then the zobel could be done away with I think. Not sure about the output inductor though. I would leave it alone unless you know exactly what you are doing. Naim specified a certain length of their speaker cable to provide a certain amount of inductance instead of putting a coil in.
It may be interesting to remove all these things (zobel, inductor, input filters) and see what happens. Only thing is I don't think Les would be amused if the boards were returned for repair and you told him what you had done. Probably better buying NVA as they are designed without them to start with.
What we need are a pair of stunt Naim Napa boards Add a psu, remove the zobel and connect to a pair of stunt speakers with some NVA speaker cables, Press the play button and wait for any oscillations. If the oscillations are not audible then keep your finger on the amp heat sink as excess heat is a dead give away. Then either bask in better music or watch your stunt amp self destruct and melt the stunt speakers too If it works then remove the output resistor (0R22) and repeat the process If that works then remove the filters before the input stage and repeat. It can go one of two ways
As it happens I have an old pair of Naim napa boards and enough parts to make an amp. I have some crap stunt speakers too. Just need the LS6 then I am good to go
Naim power amps don't have an output inductor but they do have a 0R22 resistor in line before the output. The zobel and output inductor are all about stability and a lot depends on what speaker cables you are using. If using NVA low capacitance cables then the zobel could be done away with I think. Not sure about the output inductor though. I would leave it alone unless you know exactly what you are doing. Naim specified a certain length of their speaker cable to provide a certain amount of inductance instead of putting a coil in.
It may be interesting to remove all these things (zobel, inductor, input filters) and see what happens. Only thing is I don't think Les would be amused if the boards were returned for repair and you told him what you had done. Probably better buying NVA as they are designed without them to start with.
What we need are a pair of stunt Naim Napa boards Add a psu, remove the zobel and connect to a pair of stunt speakers with some NVA speaker cables, Press the play button and wait for any oscillations. If the oscillations are not audible then keep your finger on the amp heat sink as excess heat is a dead give away. Then either bask in better music or watch your stunt amp self destruct and melt the stunt speakers too If it works then remove the output resistor (0R22) and repeat the process If that works then remove the filters before the input stage and repeat. It can go one of two ways
As it happens I have an old pair of Naim napa boards and enough parts to make an amp. I have some crap stunt speakers too. Just need the LS6 then I am good to go
Last edited by karatestu on Wed Dec 13, 2017 2:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
DIY FREE ZONE
- karatestu
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- karatestu
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Re: KISS
If a speaker cable has very low capacitance then does that automatically mean it will have higher inductance ? (than one with higher capacitance)
Maybe an easier way to put it would be as cable capacitance decreases, does inductance increase ?
Maybe an easier way to put it would be as cable capacitance decreases, does inductance increase ?
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- Dr Bunsen Honeydew
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Re: KISS
Stop thinking Naim think, you will just get confused. Not a clue why they go on about inductance, it is high cap that kills unfiltered amps.
As far as I am concerned I want LOW everything L,C and R. and stupidity. Naim think was mostly bollocks as Les will tell you. Linn then copied it with even less understanding than Naim.
As far as I am concerned I want LOW everything L,C and R. and stupidity. Naim think was mostly bollocks as Les will tell you. Linn then copied it with even less understanding than Naim.