My old stomping ground's changed a bit...

[Classicrock]

If people want something other than Cubes they have no choice - if they want new. I suppose the exception is Richer Sounds up to a certain quality level.

[Dr Bunsen Honeydew]

Not at all, just approach the manufacturer, especially the smaller ones and ask to buy direct. The retailers stock according to reviews and advertising, it is a form of corruption that the likes of Harbeth need to survive. There are literally hundreds of small companies and individuals capable of making a better sounding product than the (mostly) overpriced crap foisted on us by the big companies like Naim and Linn. There are dozens of defunct British companies that produced better product than the bullshit ones that good 2nd hand product is available from.

The industry in conjunction with retailers like KJ have gone off on a fantasy trip of ever increasing prices and profit margins. It reflects the state of the market, customers largely made up of wealthy people because of property equity and their desire to live the fantasy of when they couldn't afford it, and that is the game that is being played. It is the classic result of an aging and dying market. The sooner it gets back to the rump enthusiast like your good self the better.

If you want to watch the game as it is played at the moment just watch the stupidity being acted out at TAS with Coherent doing a job on Mike Music.

[tomblackford]

If people want something other than Cubes they have no choice - if they want new. I suppose the exception is Richer Sounds up to a certain quality level.

I must admit, I was under that impression, especially if you wanted to actually listen to something prior to purchasing... even discarding whatever 'advice' you might receive in such an establishment, I guess there has to be some premium paid for them having a room ready for auditions, and time to indulge / humour people for hours on end. Richard @ KJ (think I remembered his name) talked to my brother and I at great length about the merits of various pieces of vintage gear, and he was glad to let me position the speakers in all sorts of sub-optimal positions to simulate the positioning at home (despite this obviously impairing their 'wow factor').

Having said all of that, my recent experience with the NVA loan (for my Phono 1) does seem to show that as a somewhat inefficient model... there's obviously no better place to audition stuff than in the comfort of your own home, and then there's obviously no room or salesperson's time to pay for... I wonder whether it could be scaled out to a broader audience or whether people would take the piss though. It's be nice to be able to get multiple items (from different suppliers) simultaneously for proper comparisons...

Not at all, just approach the manufacturer, especially the smaller ones and ask to buy direct.

Yeah - I never really thought of that. I wish I had considered that from the start, however once I had taken an audition, I felt a duty to transact the sale through the person who had taken the time to do it (and listen to Owner Of A Lonely Heart at high volume on a Sunday afternoon)...

[Classicrock]

One tip with dealers - always ask for a discount. I know from experience they give 10-15% off for items bought from Insurance ( and won't ask for evidence). You could always ring in advance and say you are replacing from theft or fire damage. People just go in and pay the RRP - daft.

[tomblackford]

Now that is a good tip which I might put into use in the near future... with the Spendors there seemed to be some confusion with the pricing on their system and I got them for about 10% under RRP / price on the dealer's site without even asking!

[_D_S_J_R_]

I must confess to actually auditioning the little Harbeth P3's (pretty much the cheapest item they sell) in there a couple of months back... it's a short walk from my office and I just couldn't resist.

As ghastly as a lot of the stuff they carry is (and the clientele who buy it probably are), I have to say they were accommodating enough, despite me clearly not being in their usual demographic in terms of spending power (I actually took my Quad 303 in the first time I think, which could have elicited a lot more flak / mirth than it did).

There was one nice touch that did strike me... after the second visit, I called to say I wasn't going to buy the Harbeths and explained what I had chosen instead. This would have been an open invitation for the salesperson (an older chap, who's name I actually can't remember) to start some kind of persuasion routine, but to his credit, the chap actually said that I wasn't the first person to make exactly the same choice, and wished me luck with them.

Perhaps the commission on such a 'low price' item was so negligible that it wasn't worth his time, or perhaps they had me sussed from the start, but either way, I was pleasantly surprised I didn't have to justify my choice.

Was it my old pal Richard? They don't work on commission I think and Richard is semi-retired and part time in any case.

[_D_S_J_R_]

Not at all, just approach the manufacturer, especially the smaller ones and ask to buy direct.

If you want to watch the game as it is played at the moment just watch the stupidity being acted out at TAS with Coherent doing a job on Mike Music.

If a manufacturer sells to you direct, he'll sell at full retail so will make the dealer margin as well. Not fair at all.

Baby Spendors have changed in recent times. The early baby 3/5 models were horribly thick and clogged sounding, but I know their designer has worked hard to change this characteristic.

[tomblackford]

I must confess to actually auditioning the little Harbeth P3's (pretty much the cheapest item they sell) in there a couple of months back... it's a short walk from my office and I just couldn't resist.

As ghastly as a lot of the stuff they carry is (and the clientele who buy it probably are), I have to say they were accommodating enough, despite me clearly not being in their usual demographic in terms of spending power (I actually took my Quad 303 in the first time I think, which could have elicited a lot more flak / mirth than it did).

There was one nice touch that did strike me... after the second visit, I called to say I wasn't going to buy the Harbeths and explained what I had chosen instead. This would have been an open invitation for the salesperson (an older chap, who's name I actually can't remember) to start some kind of persuasion routine, but to his credit, the chap actually said that I wasn't the first person to make exactly the same choice, and wished me luck with them.

Perhaps the commission on such a 'low price' item was so negligible that it wasn't worth his time, or perhaps they had me sussed from the start, but either way, I was pleasantly surprised I didn't have to justify my choice.

Was it my old pal Richard? They don't work on commission I think and Richard is semi-retired and part time in any case.

Yeah - I reckon it was... I can't find his card to check the surname. Really nice chap, absolutely no pressure, happy to discuss anything (even if it was clearly not going to lead directly to a sale). No snobbery about my other gear.

[Dr Bunsen Honeydew]

The industry has to change. It has to grow up, but it is scared of it and anyone challenging the status quo has to be put down. The forums should lead the way in this instead of being the Luddites trying to block it as at the moment. It is as though they want to be ripped-off

No body in their right mind spends twice as much (or more) for product than they should or should need to be paying. Problem is the vested interest in ripping you off means there are many people who benefit from the slurp who are active on the forums. They need to be rooted out and pointed at, I can't do it all.

Why do you think there is such a campaign on the forums to put me and NVA down and block any attempt for greater access to the market, and now this forum as this is where we live. The real frustration for them is I can't be killed off, as my business model / way to market has so few risks. Where as others in the past who tried to make a go of direct selling were killed off.

In my recent poll a small majority felt dealers still had a purpose in the market. OK but is that worth paying double the price for a product.

[Dr Bunsen Honeydew]

Is a nice and friendly guy who rips you off a better person than a cantankerous old git who tells you the truth and saves you up to 50%