HiFi Subjectivist ¦ Audio Forum ¦ NVA User Group

You are not admin so that is just opinion, and disagreeing with someone and putting an alternative view is not bullying. I make strong comments and use emoticons like because to me it is IMPORTANT that false information is countered as I will not allow this forum to perpetrate bullshit and lies. AND as in all these situations when the exponent of that state is shot down then they change the subject to "poor me" or to a part of their posting style NONE of us object to (see above) and then people like you fall for it.

So I deny your comments. Per usual this started as an argument of facts and reality, and changed to personalities. I hope we all want the reality, so go back to the beginning or look at the DSJR post that DQ has just referenced to and you will see (if perceptive) what we are objecting to.

External personal comments are not helping this thread. Please if you wish to join in refer to the arguments being presented. I also don't want to see the usual circular nature of posting that all to easily develops. Please all try to refer to *the facts* of what is being said and not personalised interpretations.

We are all individuals and have established positions, what is important is to have an open mind if not conversant with all the facts. I am being pedantic because I am conversant with those facts! I met the people, I watched their motivations and it should be obvious with a little intelligence that a scam was being played out at the BBC by some employees, creating an environment and products where they could leave as *perceived* Gurus and experts to set up their own companies to cash in on the work *WE* (via licence fees) paid for them to do. The main guilty parties being Spencer Hughes and Dudley Harwood. If you require some proof of the bullshit going on just read what Alan Shaw has made up about it on the Harbeth website - no mention at all of Spencer Hughes as though he doesn't exist. WHY because the man is not about facts he is about bullshit marketing and that is what DSJR is trotting out as facts. So no contact or jealousy, between them, well another little fact as a pointer why did SPENcer Hughes and his wife DORothy, create SPENDOR and then seeing that Dudley HARwood and his wife BETH do exactly the same thing. There are so many little pointers to reality for the perceptive to winkle out. Inter BBC white coat rivalry is an obvious conclusion.

BBC speaker design was a scam. The desire to create a story, a difference that was NOT better musically than the established companies such as Celestion and Goodmans but by using our money created an environment where we lost those established companies, and good strong *basic* *simple* design was replaced by over complicated over engineered

In defence of Spen and Dudley, I knew both and never found either of them to be ego driven individuals, especially Dudley, who worked quietly from his garage when he started his own speaker business. Spencer was a technician, so the man who got his hands dirty making up stuff for them at the time I believe. He was wonderful to chat to and very kind to me when I was an eager teenager hungry for knowledge..

Yes, Alan is a good acquaintance of mine as well and he seems to be changing for the better. he's doing rather well too, lucky man...

FFS what has that got to do with what we are discussing. All it does is show why you unquestioningly support them and repeat their bullshit. Even crooks can be nice guys you know. None of this counters my FACTS.

I never once said they were egotists, I said they took advantage of a flawed but highly publicised development process at the BBC. Please don't try and tell me Alan Shaw isn't an egotist though. All you are doing is proving my point as to why you post the way you do about them. It is at the root of why we fell out when you were at AoS and IMO shilling them and Rega. The problem is you think these people, because they groom you, are your friends to support and praise. This is completely the wrong way if you want credibility, you need to select your support for a product not the man or company, and that selection should be purely on the basis of your ears and your music.

I don't understand the 'unquestioning support' bit. I don't support many Spendors, but did and still do like the two models, one I owned and the other I still own. I do feel that a whole load of baggage has been added to that sentiment, and not really by me.

Then why do I have to comment on your posts about them so often, and that does not apply to other speakers you owned and liked, again it proves it is the company and man and not the product. It is the same with retailers, your "perceived" mate is Radlett Audio / hifi Dave, so there is unquestioning support there and not for other retailers in such an obvious way.

I do not want you to support me the way you support Harbeth, Spendor, Rega, and hifi dave. I will not try to groom you to create an emotional bond, in fact I will do the opposite as I want you to judge NVA *purely* on the music that it produces.

Now that IS ENOUGH!!!

I have a friend who has proved himself to me as a friend in non audio matters time and time again for thirty years, yet you insist he's been 'grooming me' so I can support him on audio forums? Attacking my views and experiences is one thing, but leave my friends out of it, ok?

I have to say , that seemed to me somewhat of an innocuous last post by the doc , different perceptions eh

Dan your stirring the fukin shit......Give it a rest.

Daves a fine fellow, and a boon to this forum, would hate to loose him.

Yes different perceptions, sometimes the truth viewed from someone elses angle causes upset. I can only view it the way I view it, and again you admit your support him out of and emotional attachment i.e. friendship. Well if you made that public in the same way back in the day at AoS then there would have been no comment from me about it. I know you have known him for a long time and calling it grooming in your case would be wrong, but remember the other guy (Alex?) you were taking along there and encouraging to shill on AoS about Rega, that is what made me boil a bit, and made me think he was being groomed. Anyway as I have told you here I accept this is part of your nature and we all have things we like and don't like about individual people. In many ways what I see as your gullibility (IMO) is a by product for being basically a nice guy, which is why I have tried to harden you up to stand up for yourself, like with your bank.

None of this changes our relationship, I need work done, you need the work - mutual need and use, which should be accompanied by mutual respect. SO if you don't want this to repeat think twice about trotting out falsehood on this forum as though it is fact. You were not given facts back in the day, you were given what they wanted to give you so you would sell for them.