Very Long Interconnects/Where to begin

[dwhistance]

Hello, this is my first ever post on this forum. I'm just sorting out a hi-fi again after 12 years without due to a combination of losing a job, moving into a much smaller house and young children. The boys are now older and interested in music so I can indulge myself a bit again and listen over loudspeakers rather than through headphones.

First I should probably give you a bit of history. My first ever proper hi-fi, which I got in the early 1990's and kept for years was a DNM Pre/Power combination with SD Acoustics OBS loudspeakers, a Rota turntable and DNM cables throughout. Sadly it wasn't deemed child friendly enough when my first son started toddling (it was very light) so had to go. Due to a very well paid job and several burglaries I then had several increasingly expensive and exotic valve set ups (CAT SL1 with Jadis Defy 7 then CAT SL1 with CAT JL1's) paired with large but inefficient Avalon Ascent loudspeakers. Just before I lost my job and my life changed I decided to sell the lot as I wasn't enjoying the music anymore. To replace them I then bought some affordable (at the time) SET amplifiers but never really listened to them as my life changed and they have been in the loft ever since.

To get restarted I considered the SET's but although they do a lot that I like they are probably too fragile to survive two teenage boys and their friends (similarly the moving coil cartridges - its MM for me from now on). I have therefore put the lot up for sale again. At the moment I am listening to various bits and pieces I had left in the loft - a rebuilt Quad set up (34, FM4, 405-2) with a Garrard 401/Graham 2.2 - with a new computer audio set-up for ripped CD's and streaming (for the boys). I am playing them through Reference 3A Episode loudspeakers which I like a lot. The Quads are alright, they have a full, rich sound but even rebuilt are a bit "stodgy" and I am missing the details I know are there so I would like to replace them, the question is with what?

As this is the NVA sub-forum of HFS I am clearly considering NVA amplifiers and therefore cables and ultimately if I like the rest a phono stage. Having read the forum for a while I know the advice will be to start at the bottom and, assuming I like the sound, work up the range as funds/desires dictate. Sadly I have a problem with my room layout which I suspect will rule out an NVA passive - I need 9m (!) interconnects between my pre/power amps if the pre is to be beside the DAC/phono pre on the unit above my LP's and the power amp is to be at the end near the speakers . Due to the room layout there isn't room for any of the NVA power amps near to the pre amp (the 405 plus various power supplies just fit under the unit holding the LP's but it isn't by any means ideal).

Now to my questions:

1 - firstly the difficult one. Is it possible to use an NVA pre with such long interconnects? If I do try it what will be the effect? Presumably the interconnect will make a big difference at this length? If not possible does anyone have any advice on an alternative preamp that will pair well with the power amps? I'm not a box swapper and really wouldn't enjoy the process of trying out lots of preamps to find one that would work particularly as I live on the Isle of Wight so am miles away from anywhere I could listen to anything!

2 - given an answer to question 1 what advice would you give me re power amps, should I start with a pair of A40's or just go for A80's straight away - I don't need the extra power but the extra control I suspect the additional power supplies provide might be welcome?

Many thanks in advance for your assistance.

David Whistance

[Dr Bunsen Honeydew]

All amp systems will be effected by cables that length. With an active pre-amp it will be loss of information and maybe increased noise (hiss). With a passive it is different. At full volume on the passive there will be no downside, the downside occurs as you turn the volume down. With most cables you will get a tone control effect of treble cut as you turn it down. This is due to cable capacitance. You see a passive is just a variable resistance (Lpad) in the signal path and capacitance in cable goes up with length. Sooo with a normal interconnect of normal capacitance with a passive at that cable length you will have an inbuilt tone control. You need as low a capacitance interconnects as possible, and don't believer the maker, they will say anything to make a sale even in their specs, don't trust them, I don't. I use cable that has been designed for that job. In this case cable used in radar or microwave sets, as at those high frequencies normal cable blocks the signal. Ultimately in large ground radar units they use wave guides to direct the signal not cable at all as any cable will have some loss.

My point being at 9m you may detect a very small drop in treble at very low listening levels with NVA interconnects, depending on the speaker and room interface, but I don't see it as a problem. IMO a bigger problem will be information loss with an active pre and especially with a balanced active pre, but that will eliminate noise as a problem.

I say don't worry use 9m with nva and just buy which ever ones you want to start, you can always no loss upgrade later, and you can return for full refund if unhappy in any way.

[Dr Bunsen Honeydew]

The proper answer is rethink your room to fit into the hi-fi.

[dwhistance]

Thank you very much, that's heartening. At the moment I can't really change the room layout to suit (we've had some interesting discussions getting here!) so it will have to be the long interconnects, however if you think NVA interconnects will work then I'll try them as I was intending to use your cables throughout anyway. How do I go about ordering interconnects that long? Also how much will they be? Ideally I'd prefer Super Sound Pipes but I suspect in the first instance Super Sound Cords or even Sound Cords will be more sensible until I know I'm happy with the NVA sound. Will there be a big difference in sound between the three?

David Whistance

[antonio66]

AP50 or AP70 intergrated's might fit the bill.

[Dr Bunsen Honeydew]

Yep Antonio but that just shifts the problem to before the volume control as opposed to after. Same problem.

There should be 9m sound cord up, but just tell me what you want and I will put a listing up for it. I am trying to keep all sales at ebay as I am very forgetful and ebay makes me remember what I have to build and in what order.

[Dr Bunsen Honeydew]

INTERCONNECT CABLE (half price for digital cables)

TISmk2 (The Interconnecting Statement) £50 per 10cm + £60 termination
SSPmk2 (super sound pipe) £25 per 10cm + £30 termination
SSC (super sound cord) £7 per 10cm + £20 termination
SC (sound cord) £2 per 10cm + £10 termination

So SSP at 9m would be silly expensive at over £2k, even SSC would be £650.00. SC would be £190.00

[dwhistance]

Does anyone have any thoughts on whether I should jump straight in with A80's or start off with say A40's? Also any thoughts on P50 SA v P90 SA?

David Whistance

[Dr Bunsen Honeydew]

I will leave this for others. I would say you can't go wrong just pick a point and jump in.

[zebbo]

David, pretty much any of the NVA amps will be a breath of fresh air after the Quad. All NVA gear is supplied on a sale or return basis with no questions asked but hardly anyone ever returns for a refund. The A40's will drive those speakers easily but I would pretty much guarantee that once you've heard them you'll want more of the same and trade up to the A80's so you may as well save yourself the hassle and go with the 80's from the start, (they can still be returned if you really don't like them). There's some B stock ones on E-bay at the moment if you wanted to save yourself a few quid.