HiFi Subjectivist ¦ Audio Forum ¦ NVA User Group

Now here is classic example of our stupidity in this country.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-41391343

This cable was manufactured in Turkey for distribution in the EU. In other EU countries on a radial wiring systems there would be no danger, but due to fault overload conditions on a ring main it becomes dangerous. Obviously the Turkish company didn't understand ring mains. So it was CE-ed as safe throughout the EU, which shows how these universal regs are simply inadequate and crap.

So now we have fire risk buildings and we don't even know which they are.

I have been chuntering about ring mains dangers for years, so now we see a result.

We soon will be done with EU regs and will be able to control this. (I hope)

Having read the article this situation has much in common with the use of cladding on flats. Endemic culture of useless bloody bureaucrats running the country. BTW any competent electrician should not be installing cheap foreign branded cable and Homebase should be shot for selling this stuff. Another reason for making stuff in UK - can't even blame the chinese for this one but Turkey rings even more alarm bells. When ring mains were introduces everything was made in GB which doesn't make them so daft.

Depending on how your electrical system is arranged, most rings may actually be very lightly loaded, things like TV, Video, Hi-Fi, computer etc. However the kitchen is usually the place where the big loads are found, Dish Washer, Washing Machine, Dryer and which ever circuit they are on is at some real risk. Cookers are never, or rather should never be, on a ring. Obviously if you stick an electric heater or two on a ring the load goes up rather a lot.

I think it is time for a rethink, we need to put big loads on separate circuits from all the other things, and I completely agree that square pins are the wrong choice. Nowhere else are square pins used, except on cars where they can also be a real pain.

The final ring-circuit concept has been criticised in a number of ways compared to radials, and some of these disadvantages could explain the lack of widespread adoption outside the United Kingdom.

Fault conditions are not apparent when in use.

Ring circuits may continue to operate without the user being aware of any problem if there are certain types of fault condition or installation errors.

Fault condition Observations

Part of the ring missing or disconnected can result in 2.5 mm2 cables running above rated current without this being obvious to the user.
Radials with a broken connection will not function (if L or N broken), or will function with no safety earth connection (if just E broken).
Inadvertent cross connection between two 32 A rings means that the fault current protection reaches 64 A and the required fault disconnection times are violated grossly.
Spur circuits attached to the ring can overheat if not fused at the spur-point (i.e., if a BS 5733 or similar fused spur is not used)

Geoff.R.G wrote: ↑Tue Oct 03, 2017 6:12 pm Depending on how your electrical system is arranged, most rings may actually be very lightly loaded, things like TV, Video, Hi-Fi, computer etc. However the kitchen is usually the place where the big loads are found, Dish Washer, Washing Machine, Dryer and which ever circuit they are on is at some real risk. Cookers are never, or rather should never be, on a ring. Obviously if you stick an electric heater or two on a ring the load goes up rather a lot.

I think it is time for a rethink, we need to put big loads on separate circuits from all the other things, and I completely agree that square pins are the wrong choice. Nowhere else are square pins used, except on cars where they can also be a real pain.

Interesting because I had a new cooker reconnected to an unused cooker radial circuit some years ago rather than the ring main which the electrician told me was now common practice. At least a separate ring for the kitchen I would regard as essential. I believe modern cookers don't draw as much current? In this case the kitchen shared the upstairs ring so having the cooker connected sounded well dodgy to me.

Classicrock wrote: ↑Tue Oct 03, 2017 8:06 pm

Geoff.R.G wrote: ↑Tue Oct 03, 2017 6:12 pm Depending on how your electrical system is arranged, most rings may actually be very lightly loaded, things like TV, Video, Hi-Fi, computer etc. However the kitchen is usually the place where the big loads are found, Dish Washer, Washing Machine, Dryer and which ever circuit they are on is at some real risk. Cookers are never, or rather should never be, on a ring. Obviously if you stick an electric heater or two on a ring the load goes up rather a lot.

I think it is time for a rethink, we need to put big loads on separate circuits from all the other things, and I completely agree that square pins are the wrong choice. Nowhere else are square pins used, except on cars where they can also be a real pain.

Interesting because I had a new cooker reconnected to an unused cooker radial circuit some years ago rather than the ring main which the electrician told me was now common practice. At least a separate ring for the kitchen I would regard as essential. I believe modern cookers don't draw as much current? In this case the kitchen shared the upstairs ring so having the cooker connected sounded well dodgy to me.

As far as I know the laws of physics haven't changed. A cooker still draws current appropriate to the ratings of the heating elements, my induction hob and twin oven cooker is connected to a radial and certainly shouldn't be connected to a ring. It is not much over one year old. Ideally a kitchen should have a separate ring, or a radial for each major appliance.