My latest obsession

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karatestu
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Re: My latest obsession

Unread post by karatestu »

Hypnotic yeah. Been listening to some Can recently which might have had an influence. I'm sure it will turn into something eventually. It's not hard to play but I love stuff like that, over doing it can really spoil the feeling sometimes.
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Re: My latest obsession

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A lot of the Krautrock bands used a rhythmic basis they called 'motorik' - a very stready, simple beat that the rest could build-up and improvise over. the band Neu! is a good example.

More recently there is an American outfit called 'Maserati' who are heavily influenced by Krautrock and make a sort of high-intensity Post-Rock. Really worth checking out.

(on the opening track, drums come in at about the 5-minute mark)


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Re: My latest obsession

Unread post by slinger »

Jaki Liebezeit (Can) was probably the earliest pioneer of "motorik," along with Klaus Dinger of Neu! Dinger actually named it the "Apache beat," I assume, after the Indian drums in all of those old cowboy movies: ONE-two-three-four, ONE-two-three-four, etc. Smoke signals were optional I assume. :lol:
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Re: My latest obsession

Unread post by karatestu »

I have not bought any drums for over three years now :shock: At one point I was buying up lots of cheap ones locally. Well I say cheap (they were) but these are Pearl Export drums. The best selling drums in history. These things are fecking everywhere, even your granny will have had a set.

As in all areas the drum snobs don't have a good word to say about these drums. Does this sound familiar ? :grin: They weren't bargain basement but something a beginner could aspire to. There's nothing wrong with them but they weren't expensive enough to be a pro kit although some pro's did use them extensively live and in the studio. They weren't trendy either. Everybody had owned them at some point and moved on to something they thought was better. Box swappers will,know that feeling well. :lol:

Having been busy trying to make inert speakers which pass only what is fed to them, the world of drums is a very different affair. We actually want these enclosures to make a noise :shock: The wood is referred to as tone wood. Different species are said to sound different. Personally I have not heard a massive difference.

The average person will think oh that's a drum and not give the smallest ov shits. But to most drummers it does matter and they can get quite vocal about what they think is best :lol: Sound familiar in any way ? The audience does'nt give the slightest fuck about what drums you are playing - all they want is to have a good time and that is all down to the talent in the band and how many sherberts the audience has had.

So feck this instrument snobbery lark. Does my head in just like it does with hifi. Hey look how big my bass drum is. I bet it goes lower than yours and has less distortion. Is the front of your bass drum ported ? Oh my god that's just so wrong.

Anyway been busy with my cheap as chips made in Taiwan drums. More stories to come in the coming weeks but cheap drums are not always bad. And there are things you can do to make em sound better. Inverse snobbery is alive and well.
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Fretless (Fri Apr 15, 2022 9:57 pm) • Lindsayt (Sat Apr 16, 2022 9:42 am)
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Re: My latest obsession

Unread post by slinger »

Bang on about audiences, Stu. They just want to hear the racket we make (or "made" in my case) and wouldn't know a Gibson from a Harley Benton.. I've got a couple of Gibsons and a lot of other guitars. Some of my cheap guitars sound just as good, as far as I'm concerned, as the posh gear does. I buy stuff because it does the job, not because it might impress somebody.

My two Gibsons are the two most expensive guitars I own. The first one I bought was a cheer-Paul-up present after my wife died. My first real Gibson Les Paul, at age 64.
The second one was bought a month or so ago to fit a "back-to-basics" itch I wanted to scratch. I was looking at cheaper guitars that fit the mould but it came up, and I could afford it, so it's what I bought. It was even the colour I wanted. :roll:

Funny thing is, the guitar I keep next to me most of the time. for those moments of inspiration, is an old Washburn. The neck is slick and wafer-thin, I can switch the pickups between single-coil and humbuckers, and I think it's one of the cheapest decent guitars I ever bought. It even looks good. It's still my go-to guitar.

When I was playing out I couldn't afford the stuff to impress other musicians (because let's face it, they're the only people who might be impressed) and now I can afford something a bit more high-end I've got nobody to impress any more. :lol:

A lot of solid-body guitar bodies are made out of tonewood too, by the way, and it covers a multitude of sins. The name just means wood that sounds good, basically, and includes soft and hardwoods. Check it out https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tonewood

Of course, it's all about sustainability these days, which is why some of the more exotic woods that used to be used for guitar making have been replaced.

Sorry, mate, I just rambled all over your thread. :lol:
I'll get me coat.
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Fretless (Sat Apr 16, 2022 12:02 am) • karatestu (Sat Apr 16, 2022 7:02 am) • Lindsayt (Sat Apr 16, 2022 9:59 am)
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Re: My latest obsession

Unread post by Fretless »

Haven't touched my bass or Steinberger E-Cello in ages. Maybe its about time I did ....

:banana-guitar:
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karatestu (Sat Apr 16, 2022 7:32 am)

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Pro-Ject 1.2 + Grado Sig Jr + Cambridge Alva Duo
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NVA: P50sa - Cube2 - SSP - LS6+ Sabaj A10a (x2)
Downstairs:
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Re: My latest obsession

Unread post by karatestu »

slinger wrote: Fri Apr 15, 2022 11:01 pm Bang on about audiences, Stu. They just want to hear the racket we make (or "made" in my case) and wouldn't know a Gibson from a Harley Benton.. I've got a couple of Gibsons and a lot of other guitars. Some of my cheap guitars sound just as good, as far as I'm concerned, as the posh gear does. I buy stuff because it does the job, not because it might impress somebody.

My two Gibsons are the two most expensive guitars I own. The first one I bought was a cheer-Paul-up present after my wife died. My first real Gibson Les Paul, at age 64.
The second one was bought a month or so ago to fit a "back-to-basics" itch I wanted to scratch. I was looking at cheaper guitars that fit the mould but it came up, and I could afford it, so it's what I bought. It was even the colour I wanted. :roll:

Funny thing is, the guitar I keep next to me most of the time. for those moments of inspiration, is an old Washburn. The neck is slick and wafer-thin, I can switch the pickups between single-coil and humbuckers, and I think it's one of the cheapest decent guitars I ever bought. It even looks good. It's still my go-to guitar.

When I was playing out I couldn't afford the stuff to impress other musicians (because let's face it, they're the only people who might be impressed) and now I can afford something a bit more high-end I've got nobody to impress any more. :lol:

A lot of solid-body guitar bodies are made out of tonewood too, by the way, and it covers a multitude of sins. The name just means wood that sounds good, basically, and includes soft and hardwoods. Check it out https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tonewood

Of course, it's all about sustainability these days, which is why some of the more exotic woods that used to be used for guitar making have been replaced.

Sorry, mate, I just rambled all over your thread. :lol:
I'll get me coat.
Good ramble there Paul. As Robert Plant vwould say, ramble on. Bang on, the only people posh guitars impress are guitarists. I've been in countless bands, done a stupid amount of gigs and I can't tell one guitar from another. In fact I don't care :lol: The only time I did care was when I was assessing how suitable it was for wrapping round it's owner's head.

Some of the drums available are stupidly expensive. One of these companies is DW - stands for Drum workshop. Me and my bass player pal call em drum wanker :lol: Says it all, this person bought them for the image they portray rather than how they sound. They don't sound bad of course but nobody really cares except the knob hitting them.

Look at how nice the wood finish is and how shiny the chrome work is. A few gigs down the line and they will be crying over that first dent or scratch. For fooks sake these things are meant to be used. If you can't cope with the wear and tear of use then leave em at home. Just look what Keith Moon used to do to his kits, they used to just fall off the drum riser. They were Premier Elite drums by the way. Lovely sounding thin shelled tubs with reinforcement rings at either end. I have an Elite 15" tom and it sounds amazing. I only bought it though because it is 15" and you don't come across the so often. Premier went tits up a few years ago. Such a shame that England's best known drum maker has gone :cry: All that history and lovely drums. Oh well, at keast there are lots of their old drums available used.
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Re: My latest obsession

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Fretless wrote: Sat Apr 16, 2022 12:04 am Haven't touched my bass or Steinberger E-Cello in ages. Maybe its about time I did ....

:banana-guitar:
Yes I think it's about time Fret. Bass players are god's finest creation :grin:
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Fretless (Sat Apr 16, 2022 8:52 am) • slinger (Sat Apr 16, 2022 1:30 pm)
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Re: My latest obsession

Unread post by karatestu »

Yes, some of the cheap drums sound just as good as the drum wanker stupidly expensive offerings. But as with all things it's all about image, bragging rights, willy waving, superiority complexes :roll: There are certain things that make a drum sound good

Biggest one is the owner's ability to actually tune the bloody things. Most drummers don't have a clue. It comes with experience, trying stuff out and a good ear. There are tuning aids like guitar tuners and I sometimes use one to get the intervals right between the toms. Some drums have a more limited tuning range than others. A drum cranked too high can choke the resonance and it sounds dead. A drum tuned too low can sometimes be ok but the response will be compromised. That is the stick won't bounce or rebound off it very well. I prefer jazz tunings which are higher than normal. The stick rebound is much more helpful for my usual style which is on the jazzy / funky side.

The drum must actually be round. You do find some which aren't. They will never sound good and are hard to correct. Tuning will be impossible.

The bearing edges must be flat and smooth. The bearing edges are the bit of the shell which makes contact with the head (skin). Irregular edges that have high and low spots will never tune up very well. I have a glass table top I use to check this. Put a bright kamp inside the drum with heads removed and put a cover over the top. Now go round looking for any visible light where the edge meets the glass table top. This can be corrected but involves some work. Glue some sanding sheets to the flat table top and rotate the drum whilst applying even pressure.

The bearing edges can have a big effect on the sound. The profiles have changed over the years. The old fashioned vintage sound is achieved by having a roundover edge much like a baseball bat all the way around. This is without doubt my favourite sounding edge - bloody love it. It gives a more warm, mellow sound with fewer high frequency overtones. The drum's sustain may be slightly shorter. This is due to more of the shell being in contact with the head.

The modern style edges have very little of the shell in contact with the head. This is achieved by routing different profiles like a double 45 degree on both sides of the edges (other angles are available). This results in a sharp edge which contacts the head. So there is little contact and the drum is brighter with more high frequency overtone and a sound that rings for longer. That ringing or sustain can be both a good thing and a pain in the ass. Sound engineers complain about a too ringy drum. I don't like it either but you need some or you may as well just play a set of diferent sized cardboard boxes.

The species of wood, how the shell was formed and the type of glue used affects the tone. Wooden drums are mainly made of plywood. There is a difference but in my experience it is small and nobody but the drummer really can tell or actually gives a feck. Some wood is harder and more dense and this can have an effect. I actually like the sound of my cheap Pearl Export shells. They are made from a cheap, fast growing Asian Mahogany (Luan) which is fairly soft - it's easy to sand :dance: The softness of the wood gives them a more mellow sound with more low frequency sustain. IME this is a good thing for bass drums and big floor toms especially.

Bored yet ?
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r3xj0hn570n (Sat Apr 16, 2022 9:14 am) • Lindsayt (Sat Apr 16, 2022 10:02 am)
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Re: My latest obsession

Unread post by karatestu »

The similarities between the drum industry, hifi industry and the people who make, sell, own and use them is God damn spooky. Over inflated prices, so called amazing advances in production that have reinvented the wheel and this are all wrapped in layers and layers of marketing bullshit and newspeak.

Drums sound no better than they did 70 years ago. In fact in a lot of cases they sound worse. But manufacturers have to come up with new bullshit ideas and ways to solve problems that didn't exist just so the gullible empty their pockets again. New sparkly finishes and hardware that looks slightly different and the idiots are clambering over each other to own this new must have drum jewellery.

It's like a parallel to the hifi industry. Many would argue that amplifiers and speakers have not progressed since the 60's and have in fact gone backwards as more and more unnecessary shite is added to justify a new model and more sales to keep the company shareholders in new Porsches. For fooks sake a drum is one of the most primitive things ever invented. It doesn't have to make a cup of tea or wipe my arse for me. I remember fixing my mate's Cambridge Audio amp a few years ago. Faulty relay. That thing had relays for everything you could imagine and all sorts of unecessary extras. I joked with him that I could make it sound a lot better simply by pulling half of it out and throwing it in the bin.

Drummers fall for this crap just like hifi owners. Image is everything. Not to me though. Give me old 1980's cheap battered drums and they will get played and loved. I won't be worrying about the next scratch or dent as there is already an extensive collection of those. As long as they tune up and stay in tune then that is all I care about.

As usual, I can't help but modify the living shite out of everything I own. These old 80's drums are no different and have not escaped this inevitability. I will of course let you all in on the awful things I have subjected these poor drums to. I remember the disgust that was evident on another forum after I attacked my Mordaunt Short 902S speakers with a chainsaw. How very sad for them to see a pair of speakers that I own (yes me) ruined in such a way. I own them so can do what I like to them. Those people who got upset should look away now (and get a life).
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Lindsayt (Sat Apr 16, 2022 10:02 am) • CN211276 (Sat Apr 16, 2022 10:48 am)
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