Life of Pi

A place for DIY project discussions.
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Dr Bunsen Honeydew
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Re: Life of Pi

Unread post by Dr Bunsen Honeydew »

"isn't capable of managing the necessary bandwidth" - have you tested that objectivist theory or measurement with music.

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Re: Life of Pi

Unread post by Fretless »

As far as I know SPDIF only supports PCM signals up to 24bit 192 kHz. Not native DSD.

But I'm not an audio engineer and will gladly be corrected.

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Re: Life of Pi

Unread post by Dr Bunsen Honeydew »

So what! how does that effect your music.

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Re: Life of Pi

Unread post by _D_S_J_R_ »

What's MUSIC got to do with it? :lol:

I bet nobody into hi-res has ever taken a hi-res download, decoded to analogue and then burned it to red-book CD. Sounds all but identical to me, so it's the mastering that makes the 'audible' difference and I maintain nowt at all to do with specsmanship. I need to realise again that this is a hobby and relaxing with yer favourite tunes is the least of it all. Just add more and more boxes, wires, stuff on a breadboard and all will be well :mrgreen:

It may be cheap, low rent bottom-range audio chips inside and so on, but that Sony CDP-S1 is bloody marvellous in musical terms - I can completely forget this machine was from a midi system (albeit a very good one) and doesn't have its own remote. Taken on its own, it just makes sense of the music I play through it and the 'sonics' just don't matter. Switching back to the vastly heavier and more intricate Denon 1520 with it's superior mechanism, some of the instant 'believability' seems to evaporate and I start to make excuses for it - like we do...
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Re: Life of Pi

Unread post by Dr Bunsen Honeydew »

I was singing the praises of the CDP-S1 for a couple of years, but who listens to me :roll:

I gave that one to Dave as I have a couple and he rebuilt a TT for me. You can pick them up for under £50 on ebay. On my main rig now I use a Tempo (another Chinese can't be good cos its cheap jobby) as it has an out for my cheap Chinese DAC.

You lot seem to accept analogue is about your music yet it seems the hi-fi disease still has to get you, and the digital way is doing it. OK the cheap (or not so cheap) DIY is always good, but somehow the bullshitters and slurpers have found their stuff being recommended on HFS - not the HFS way, but you can do what you want, but you will get my bile thrown at it if you do.

REAL music doesn't have to cost fortunes nor have all this semi tech bollocks wrapped around it.

Quite simply you can do it 2nd hand, or by trying the Chinese bargains, or from me. I obviously think my way is better - A system consisting of a cheap computer like my Lenovo - a SPDIF converter £20 - A Chinese £5 DAC - a £50 linear power supply for it - a P20 at £100 - a A20 at £200 - a pair of Cubettes at £300 (offer at £225 atm) and all cables (SC LS2) - approx £100 = £700 for full MUSIC - NOT HI-FI system, that will piss musically on 90% of your so called hi-end hi-fi crap you are being conned into. Add that Sony CD player for under £50. What more do you need - NOTHING, what more do you want? refinement / icing on the cake, then get that without losing the music if you start my way as each change will show you if it is a musical way up or a way back to the bullshit.

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Re: Life of Pi

Unread post by Welder »

_D_S_J_R_ wrote: Sat Dec 29, 2018 11:09 am What's MUSIC got to do with it? :lol:

I bet nobody into hi-res has ever taken a hi-res download, decoded to analogue and then burned it to red-book CD. Sounds all but identical to me, so it's the mastering that makes the 'audible' difference and I maintain nowt at all to do with specsmanship. I need to realise again that this is a hobby and relaxing with yer favourite tunes is the least of it all. Just add more and more boxes, wires, stuff on a breadboard and all will be well :mrgreen:

It may be cheap, low rent bottom-range audio chips inside and so on, but that Sony CDP-S1 is bloody marvellous in musical terms - I can completely forget this machine was from a midi system (albeit a very good one) and doesn't have its own remote. Taken on its own, it just makes sense of the music I play through it and the 'sonics' just don't matter. Switching back to the vastly heavier and more intricate Denon 1520 with it's superior mechanism, some of the instant 'believability' seems to evaporate and I start to make excuses for it - like we do...
You would lose your bet. I'm not going to bother digging up the numerous posts on conversions but take a trip over to Computer Audiophile and read some of the posts from those who make DACs and have done exactly this.

Yeah but, it's not just a hobby for some. For some it's a business. I believe you are involved in the business now and you certainly used to be when you were at KJ sounds/audio in Watford many years ago. Yes we have met.

For others it's a passion more than a hobby. In fact, listening to music isn't really what I would class as a 'hobby' at all.

Does Hi Res music sound better? Not to my ears but here on a subjectivists forum you can't really dismiss what others who do think it sounds better have to say.

If you can tell the difference between your CDP-S1 in 'musical terms' of course then it would seem that there is at least a perceptible difference between digital processing using various layouts and algorithms. This would seem to suggest that there is a possibility that greater bit depth and a higher sampling rate may be audible to some. Only the listener can decide if it's 'better'

I had similar blind bollocks at AOS when I tried to promote file audio over CD and, god forbid, analogue.
Your a bit older than me, though not by much. My hearing is very rough, ADMIN EDIT - ad hominem removed
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Re: Life of Pi

Unread post by Dr Bunsen Honeydew »

Someone else hates over priced PR based BOLLOCKS that stops REAL progress. OK different subject, but it can be applied to all subjects. As soon as you see the PR bullshit in any parameter, market, philosophy, politics, religion, etc just hold your nose, stop sniffing it and tell them to feck-off.



OK what I said above can be considered as marketing, call it frustration marketing if you want. I am not chasing business I am chasing a principle in life, one we seem to have lost, the *skill* of someone who *knows* what they are doing. Modern way they are either ignored, dismissed or used (Like Colin) by the greedy shits who need to live off them. PR and *the story* has become the only important thing and we are stooooopid enough to pay the price they want for it.

In my case I just want to see us go a different way, not left not right, not believing or not believing - just the process of *REALITY* submerged in the bullshit that is modern life in every form. OK looked at in those terms music and hi-fi is small beer, but that is my beer, so I make my contribution.

My point is I can prove it, stick you multi thousand pound Hi-Fi in a spare room out of the way. Get what I recommend above and try it, if you do not see reality in it and my point then return it for full refund - no loss. If I am right or wrong THEN TELL US, if you find I am right then make a profit by selling all the overpriced crap you have been conned into. Takes a bit of owning up that - that some peoples egos will not allow sadly.

Off topic here but I feel the need for a new year rant.

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Re: Life of Pi

Unread post by _D_S_J_R_ »

Welder, I don't know if the removed content was for me, but my ears are now stable and equal in their good and bad points, thanks to a caring nurse and the proper ear drops coming back on the market after some time off. You'd think I'd prefer a leaner more analytical sound due to hf sensitivity issues, but in fact I don't if it means the music gets bleached in the process. The difference in CD players is often the analogue output setup, rather than the decoding of the digits and it's my experience the switchable filters on many mid price DACs make little to no audible difference, even if it's measurable. I've recently heard speakers I once owned and loved (and sold for love and marriage...) in my career and they sound today as great as I remember them (better actually), so I don't think my ears have gone off at normal volume levels as much as I thought they had, although very low level listening isn't as fine for me as it was once. I've also had a re-appraisal of a certain vinyl source we all love to hate and again had a few surprises when new cartridges are fitted, although certain aspects of its design and conception/early history can never be eliminated and this will forever put some people off along with the money asked for new ones.

I'm still in the industry, 'in the background' and am able to hear different odds and sods here and there, but don't deal with 'the public' other than on forums (KJ Watford was 1974 part time and '75 - 77 full time before moving to the W1 store until 1982). It's my understanding that proper hi-res is needed in the mastering and conservation process, but not really at all for High End audio, as various ultra hf artefacts can apparently occur which can mess with many playback systems (I gather). SA-CD was a regularly reviewed issue for example, as it seems that all the extra 'bandwidth over 20kHz and up to beyond 50kHz was NOISE and was easily measured whether the music weas there or not. Metal dome tweeters usually take off big-time between 25 and 40khz and although 'we' can't hear this, I bet it affects reproduction lower down in frequencies we *can* hear. Add a load of spurious noise up there where they're taking off and who knows what 'differences' we notice - Also, Martin Colloms 'tested' some early SA-CD releases and every one had been eq'd differently from the CD masterings, so forgive my caution on these fancy new formats.

All I ask is that you and I remain open minded on some of these things. I don't have the physical space to accommodate a Pi plus add-ons. Having said that, my son's degree course will entail him using a Pi for other software based purposes, so I may be dragged into it that way ;)
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Re: Life of Pi

Unread post by Chunk McDaniel »

I find most reviews involving DAC's very rarely mention music or sound quality these days it's all graphs and measurements. Hifi especially involving streaming and any form of computer only seem to care about specs and fancy charts. Do these people listen to music or just test tones. Unbelievable!

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Re: Life of Pi

Unread post by Dr Bunsen Honeydew »

Because it has become the latest bullshit so the slurpers can feed off you.

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