Everything has a sound

A place for DIY project discussions.
Geoff.R.G
Posts: 1562
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2016 2:46 pm
Location: Denham UK
Has thanked: 132 times
Been thanked: 476 times
Great Britain

Re: Everything has a sound

Unread post by Geoff.R.G »

Stu, have you considered the various options for the diaphragms in microphones?

I applaud your enquiring mind but your headline statement says it all. Take an instrument and play it in your lounge (better make it something smallish like a violin or flute) and then go and play it in a large hall, obviously it sounds different. Peter Walker's famous comment "the closest approach to the original sound" was right. All the manufacturers are trying to achieve that, and failing because they are trying to measure their results.

If you listen to studio albums you might get reasonably close to the sound the mastering engineer heard, otherwise, who knows how close an approach you might achieve. Please don't drive yourself mad by trying to achieve perfection, just enjoy the music. Meanwhile, here are some thoughts on Hi-Fi from the 1950s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7fJmmDkvQyc
These users thanked the author Geoff.R.G for the post:
karatestu (Sat Oct 30, 2021 12:46 pm)

User avatar
karatestu
Posts: 5945
Joined: Sun Jan 08, 2017 4:40 pm
Location: North Yorkshire
Has thanked: 1865 times
Been thanked: 1378 times
Great Britain

Re: Everything has a sound

Unread post by karatestu »

Geoff.R.G wrote: Sat Oct 30, 2021 12:38 pm Stu, have you considered the various options for the diaphragms in microphones?

I applaud your enquiring mind but your headline statement says it all. Take an instrument and play it in your lounge (better make it something smallish like a violin or flute) and then go and play it in a large hall, obviously it sounds different. Peter Walker's famous comment "the closest approach to the original sound" was right. All the manufacturers are trying to achieve that, and failing because they are trying to measure their results.

If you listen to studio albums you might get reasonably close to the sound the mastering engineer heard, otherwise, who knows how close an approach you might achieve. Please don't drive yourself mad by trying to achieve perfection, just enjoy the music. Meanwhile, here are some thoughts on Hi-Fi from the 1950s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7fJmmDkvQyc
Thanks for giving it your consideration Geoff. Peter Walkers comment is a very famous one and is of course the ultimate goal. My own instrument (drums) can be made out of many different materials and they do all sound different.

"Please don't drive yourself mad by trying to achieve perfection, just enjoy the music" - I tried to but I think I am so far up my own backside now that I need rescuing. I wonder about everything and my search for perfection is taking over my life. :angry-steamingears: Thanks for your concern and you are of course correct. Less thinking and talking and more doing is required.

What are your speaker drivers made of ?
DIY FREE ZONE

Vinyl-ant
Posts: 765
Joined: Sat Jul 01, 2017 12:51 pm
Location: South yorkshire
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 363 times
Contact:
Great Britain

Re: Everything has a sound

Unread post by Vinyl-ant »

Stu the best thing to do is to have a control.
I did exactly the same, disappearing up my own arse chasing..... something.
In my csse the control was a pair of quad 11l standmounts, they were nice little speakers, enjoyable, did things i liked, and things i didn't.
I always had something to go back to as a reference.
I built all sorts of speakers and didnt go back to them for a long time. When i did, it gave a reference point, and clarified what the hell it was i was chasing because id completely lost direction.

With the turntables and arms, i have my jbe dd, the airprodigy linear arm and the at33sa cart. Thats my reference, thats what i go back and listen to when i change something on the arm im working on. Thats the reason i havent disappeared up my own arse with the cx arm. I make a change, its either closer to that reference or further away, it tells me which direction to go in

Its like being in a desert without a compass sometimes, you go round in circles ad nauseum until you cant see anything but sand.
Then get very frustrated and give up.
Once you have a reference to go by it becomes a lot less frustrating
Analogue: oracle delphi sme 309, jbe series 3 cx unipivot dv20x2l, roksan xerxes tabriz vm750, jvc ql-y5f rigb at440, jvc ql-y3f vm750, lenco 75, technics sl150

Phono stages: cole lcr, benedict audio hothead

Digital: cyrus cd7, wiim mini x2, topping e30, jds labs el dac 2+

Amplification: nelson pass b1, nelson pass f5

Speakers: 15" fane aperiodic wardrobes

Cans: myryad z40, hifiman sundara + deva, fostex t50rp, sennheiser momentum on ear +over ear, b&w p5 and p7

Geoff.R.G
Posts: 1562
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2016 2:46 pm
Location: Denham UK
Has thanked: 132 times
Been thanked: 476 times
Great Britain

Re: Everything has a sound

Unread post by Geoff.R.G »

karatestu wrote: Sat Oct 30, 2021 12:59 pm
Geoff.R.G wrote: Sat Oct 30, 2021 12:38 pm Stu, have you considered the various options for the diaphragms in microphones?

I applaud your enquiring mind but your headline statement says it all. Take an instrument and play it in your lounge (better make it something smallish like a violin or flute) and then go and play it in a large hall, obviously it sounds different. Peter Walker's famous comment "the closest approach to the original sound" was right. All the manufacturers are trying to achieve that, and failing because they are trying to measure their results.

If you listen to studio albums you might get reasonably close to the sound the mastering engineer heard, otherwise, who knows how close an approach you might achieve. Please don't drive yourself mad by trying to achieve perfection, just enjoy the music. Meanwhile, here are some thoughts on Hi-Fi from the 1950s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7fJmmDkvQyc
Thanks for giving it your consideration Geoff. Peter Walkers comment is a very famous one and is of course the ultimate goal. My own instrument (drums) can be made out of many different materials and they do all sound different.

"Please don't drive yourself mad by trying to achieve perfection, just enjoy the music" - I tried to but I think I am so far up my own backside now that I need rescuing. I wonder about everything and my search for perfection is taking over my life. :angry-steamingears: Thanks for your concern and you are of course correct. Less thinking and talking and more doing is required.

What are your speaker drivers made of ?
I haven't a clue!

User avatar
Lindsayt
Posts: 4213
Joined: Fri Jul 13, 2012 9:06 pm
Has thanked: 1079 times
Been thanked: 692 times
Nauru

Re: Everything has a sound

Unread post by Lindsayt »

The impression I've gotten from the speakers featuring kevlar woofers has been that they've not been good at transients. Smoothing them over and taking the edge off them. I don't know if that's inherent to kevlar or is a result of design decisions made by the manufacturer?

The woofers I've liked the sound of best - so far - have been made from paper / doped paper.
These users thanked the author Lindsayt for the post:
karatestu (Sat Oct 30, 2021 2:48 pm)

User avatar
karatestu
Posts: 5945
Joined: Sun Jan 08, 2017 4:40 pm
Location: North Yorkshire
Has thanked: 1865 times
Been thanked: 1378 times
Great Britain

Re: Everything has a sound

Unread post by karatestu »

Paper is mentioned as a lot of people's favourite.. Must be something to it.
DIY FREE ZONE

User avatar
savvypaul
Posts: 8635
Joined: Tue Oct 11, 2016 7:14 pm
Location: Durham
Has thanked: 1657 times
Been thanked: 2978 times
Contact:
Great Britain

Re: Everything has a sound

Unread post by savvypaul »

Paper is light. Fast transient response?
I am in the hi-fi trade
Status: Manufacturer
Company Name: NVA Hi-Fi
https://nvahifi.co.uk/

User avatar
Lindsayt
Posts: 4213
Joined: Fri Jul 13, 2012 9:06 pm
Has thanked: 1079 times
Been thanked: 692 times
Nauru

Re: Everything has a sound

Unread post by Lindsayt »

Paper can be doped to variable density. To give more strength / rigidity where it's most required and less mass where it isn't.

I've not heard any Hartley woofers. I'd love to some day. Latex with the surrounds being an integral part of the cone. Instead of being a glued on assembly as per the vast majority of speakers.

Daniel Quinn
Posts: 8586
Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2012 7:16 am
Has thanked: 24 times
Been thanked: 399 times

Re: Everything has a sound

Unread post by Daniel Quinn »

Personally I haven't a clue. I've doped paper, fibre glass and Kevlar and had no problems, with the final sound. What the drivers sound like inherently , don't ask me .

Me thinks nobody in fora land as sufficient simultaneous experience to draw any worthwhile conclusions so I will just use my ears as and when necessary

Post Reply