Speakers

[valvesRus]

I've seen speakers constructed by inexperienced DIYers and some are horrendous.

I started building speakers in the mid 90s, and found its easy to build speakers that do some things well, or even do some thing's exceptionally well, but building a speaker that does most things very well in every department is a bit of a challenge..

That is really the point I was trying to make to Lindsay in his speaker thread.

In spite of his "production engineering" expertise, and careful selection of drivers, a first time total success is not guaranteed.

That is not being negative, just realistic.

[Lindsayt]

I've seen speakers constructed by inexperienced DIYers and some are horrendous.

I started building speakers in the mid 90s, and found its easy to build speakers that do some things well, or even do some thing's exceptionally well, but building a speaker that does most things very well in every department is a bit of a challenge..

So, as a general line of rhetoric - not specifically for you Steve - all these speakers:

Dali Opticon 6 Mk II - low efficiency 4 ohm slimline ported speakers retailing for £1500. 2 x 6.5" mid-woofers.
Dali Rubicon 6 - low efficiency 4 ohm slimline ported speakers retailing for £3300. 2 x 6.5" mid-woofers.
Sonus Faber Sonetto V - low efficiency 4 ohm slimline ported speakers retailing for £4300. 2 x 7" woofers.
Sonus Faber Lumina III - low efficiency 4 ohm slimline ported speakers retailing for £2000. 2 x 5.5" woofers.
Dynaudio Emit 50 - very low efficiency 4 ohm slimline ported speakers retailing for £1750. 2 x 7" woofers.
Dynaudio Evoke 50 - low efficiency 4 ohm slimline ported speakers retailing for £4200. 2 x 7" woofers.
Focal Aria 926 - low efficiency 8 ohm dropping to 2.9 ohms slimline ported speakers retailing for £2400. 2 x 6.5" mid-woofers.
AudioVector QR5 - low efficiency 4 ohm slimline ported speakers retailing for £2900. 2 x 6" mid-woofers.
Acoustic Energy AE520 - low efficiency 6 ohm slimline ported speakers retailing for £3650. 3 x 5" woofers.
Triangle Borea BR08 - low efficiency 8 ohm dropping to 3 ohms slimline ported speakers retailing for £1000. 2 x 6.5" mid-woofers.
Gato Audio FM-30 - low efficiency 4 ohm slimline ported speakers retailing for £4000. 2 x 5.5" woofers.

What do they do well?
Apart from the Triangle Borea's are any of them any good at helping to keep the customer's money in the customer's bank account?
Do any of them do bass well?
Do they preserve transients well? Especially midrange transients, such as a smartly hit snare drum?
Are they good at midrange detail?
Midrange clarity?
Are they good for sounding acceptable when placed right against a wall or corner?
Are they good for their longevity? Will they work without any repairs or maintenance for the next 50 years?
Are they good investments that will increase in value in real terms?

What are they good for then?
Looking fashionable for a decade or two before they will look unfashionable?
Having slim looking front baffles? Which comes back to fashion again.
Anything else?

How many commercially made modern speakers have you (as in anyone reading this) heard that do most things very well in every department?

Richard started this thread 3 years ago. Since then it appears that the world of mainstream commercially available speakers has become more entrenched in "me too" sonically bland products.

Is this like some loudspeaker dystopian world that we've fallen into? A 1984 / Brave New World?
Where the Overton Window is that all speakers under £1984 per channel should be dinky looking Delta or Epsilon clones of each other?

[valvesRus]

The thing is, we all have different views on what a speaker should sound like.

We all have different room sizes with different acoustic properties.

Most of us use different amplification and replay equipment.

So, even if you could test every speaker in the world the results would only be applicable to you in your room.

A question Lindsay, being honest, which speakers at Owston did you really like, or not like, and why ?

Or, for brevity, just the best and the worst, in your opinion.

[SteveS57]

To be honest lindsay I would not choose to use any of those speakers listed, my comment was how difficult it can be and for me.. to get a loudspeaker I've made to sound good.
All my diy speakers have been high efficiency, because I appreciate what I hear as a lifelike sound with them.
And to me the best amplifiers are low powered so are usable with my speakers

[CycleCoach]

At the start of this thread, Richard said that amongst modern commercially made speakers, the only brand that he liked were NVA and Klipsch.

Whenever I attended bake-offs or hi-fi events, Richard and I were always in complete agreement as to what sounded better and why.
In general at bake-offs -if you exclude attendees that both lacked integrity AND who had an emotional bias - I have found there to be pretty much universal agreement as to what sounds better and why.

Bake-offs are generally good at being hi-fi truth tests. Where the hi-fi speaks for itself.

So no, I don't agree that "we all have different views on what a speaker should sound like".

The thing is, we all have different views on what a speaker should sound like.

We all have different room sizes with different acoustic properties.

Most of us use different amplification and replay equipment.

So, even if you could test every speaker in the world the results would only be applicable to you in your room.

A question Lindsay, being honest, which speakers at Owston did you really like, or not like, and why ?

Or, for brevity, just the best and the worst, in your opinion.

[Daniel Quinn]

To be honest lindsay I would not choose to use any of those speakers listed, my comment was how difficult it can be and for me.. to get a loudspeaker I've made to sound good.
All my diy speakers have been high efficiency, because I appreciate what I hear as a lifelike sound with them.
And to me the best amplifiers are low powered so are usable with my speakers

Taking an interest in audio equipment is a minority thing. And within that creating any DIY projects is a minority activity.

Is there anything that could be done to increase the number of people that take on DIY projects and to make it easier for them to create reasonable DIY'd speakers at their first attempt?

I think that a change of editorial policy at the most widely distributed hi-fi magazine would help. If What Hi-fi started writing about DIY. Just 1 or 2 articles per month. Where DIY speakers were compared against commercial speakers. And where plans and straight-forward instructions were given for DIY projects.
I can't see them doing that. Because that would be biting the hand that feeds them. They rely on manufacturers sending them product to review and feeding them press releases in order to have content for their magazine.

There's also scope for a passionate charismatic youtuber to create a series of videos on DIY, showing clearly and in an entertaining way how to make DIY hi-fi. Accompanied by a website giving bills of materials and plans.

[SteveS57]

At the start of this thread, Richard said that amongst modern commercially made speakers, the only brand that he liked were NVA and Klipsch.

Whenever I attended bake-offs or hi-fi events, Richard and I were always in complete agreement as to what sounded better and why.
In general at bake-offs -if you exclude attendees that both lacked integrity AND who had an emotional bias - I have found there to be pretty much universal agreement as to what sounds better and why.

Bake-offs are generally good at being hi-fi truth tests. Where the hi-fi speaks for itself.

So no, I don't agree that "we all have different views on what a speaker should sound like

You attend the same bake offs as me lindsay and I'd think most of the attendees do have very similar opinions of how music should sound.

We have also been to the wam show regularly and it's surprising how many people also have a similar view to mine when I talk to them... but thats also the place where I've come across the exceptions.. that I think you have described accurately.

I remember Richard at daves place when he first heard my speakers, he was watching me assemble them, I could see he had warmed to them before he heard them.

With regard to this last owston meet there was a particularly good sound across all the systems this time, I found the main differences was in the bass
presentation, a few of the speakers had a 'slow' type of sound.. yes deep, but not precise if you know what I mean.
Value for money, the fane triple cones take some beating.. Once they have had a year or so to run in..

[savvypaul]

To be honest lindsay I would not choose to use any of those speakers listed, my comment was how difficult it can be and for me.. to get a loudspeaker I've made to sound good.
All my diy speakers have been high efficiency, because I appreciate what I hear as a lifelike sound with them.
And to me the best amplifiers are low powered so are usable with my speakers

Taking an interest in audio equipment is a minority thing. And within that creating any DIY projects is a minority activity.

Is there anything that could be done to increase the number of people that take on DIY projects and to make it easier for them to create reasonable DIY'd speakers at their first attempt?

I think that a change of editorial policy at the most widely distributed hi-fi magazine would help. If What Hi-fi started writing about DIY. Just 1 or 2 articles per month. Where DIY speakers were compared against commercial speakers. And where plans and straight-forward instructions were given for DIY projects.
I can't see them doing that. Because that would be biting the hand that feeds them. They rely on manufacturers sending them product to review and feeding them press releases in order to have content for their magazine.

There's also scope for a passionate charismatic youtuber to create a series of videos on DIY, showing clearly and in an entertaining way how to make DIY hi-fi. Accompanied by a website giving bills of materials and plans.

If the pleasure in DIY is coming up with something that is your own design, would self-assembly to someone else's instructions really count?

[valvesRus]

Hi Fi World started a DIY trend many years ago, and published a DIY supplement which came free every now and then with the magazine.

They did everything that you could ask for. DIY kits for amplifiers and well written articles on loudspeaker design and build. I still have most DIY supplements on paper, and a CD disc with everything on which I think are still available.

That spawned a company called "World Audio Designs", which eventually became "World Designs" and is alive and well to this day. Sadly loudspeakers are no longer dealt with.

One owner of World Designs (not the current one) was Peter Comeau, he of Heybrook fame and who now heads the giant IAG group in China. (think Quad & Wharfedale amongst many others).

What Peter didn't know about hi-fi, and loudspeakers in particular was probably not worth knowing, and he's a nice chap as well.


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[valvesRus]

[/quote]

If the pleasure in DIY is coming up with something that is your own design, would self-assembly to someone else's instructions really count?
[/quote]

A fair and valid question.

Also, as SteveS57 mentioned, don't under estimate how long it takes new drivers to run in, or loosen up, can take MANY months of continuous use.

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