Rega ramblings...

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Rega ramblings...

Unread post by _D_S_J_R_ »

The stuff that follows will be disjointed ramblings probably, so apologies in advance..

I'll start with quoting from an earlier post elsewhere here -

'A quick comment about Rega 3 and 6 turntables discussed there (Lenco owners/users can look away smugly for now ;) )

The 3 in current trim is a very good 'HiFi' player, clean and lively 'HiFi' and with a much improved bass reproduction I think over old versions, although the wall shelf is still mandatory ime. On the face of it, the Planar 6/Neo doesn't look much different, but the heavier platter and better external supply helps no end if you listen to the music rather the 'sound' coming out. The 6 allows better reproduction of HOW a piece of music is played and the subtle timbres changing as piano notes decay, or brushing of cymbals for example. There was a YouTube vid comparing the two in older form and an Ortofon MC Turbo was used as cartridge and even via the lo-res stream, i could hear it. So many crap subjective vids there now I gave up trying to find it. The difference between them is a diluted version of say, an NVA amp compared to a typical alternative model.

One reason for the regular product changes is the international market apparently. We tight Brits like long product lives where we get to know the models and trust them, as long as not too many under-skin changes are made. not so elsewhere it seems, as interest drifts to the next new thing. I wondered why Spendor kept bringing out different 'revisions' to their established and far-east-popular 'Classic' models and I suspect this is why, and something it seems Harbeth are only just discovering with the runaway success of their bling-anniversary range, where their far eastern market lapped up the changes and were happy to fork out huge premiums for them..'



For many years when Roy Gandy was fully in charge, Rega was a little aloof and in my opinion, more than a little smug with the success and long waiting lists for their turntables. I believe they started in 1973 or so with stylish but simple deck called the Planet which, despite the odd platter arrangement, actually 'sounded' very good if carefully sited and still does I think. I believe belts for this model are still available for this model (they're longer than the Rega belts used since) and the main point of interest was the fine tonearm fitted, which is very like the Acos Lustre type and different to subsequent tonearms they did. I still wonder if the cheapo Amstrad TP12-D deck wasn't made by them (same idea if scrappy finish and bits) but I think that's been denied heavily.

I didn't come by Rega until '76 or so, when I heard an LP12 at Grahams with the possibility of buying one as a trade colleague. The Planet had all but gone by then I think and as the main reason for the visit was to see how that heap of springy tin and cardboard made in Glasgow could compare. I'd had a dem there a year before against a TD125mk2 and using the opening minutes of Lizard by King Crimson, the difference was easy to spot and the LP12 certainly sounded more focused to me. The comparison was done by Jimmy Hughes (whom I later befriended) and was an LP12/SME and TD125mk2/SME using Grace MM cartridges I seem to remember. A Rega 2 was there at the time alongside and the Planar 3 had just been announced, but I didn't hear them.

So much was happening back in the mid 70's audio scene. VAT had shot up,UK audio market had collapsed after record sales just before this happened (the beginnings of the death throes I think) and the Jap importers decided the top gear was too expensive and I remember Yamaha and others cheapening the mainstream products and sounding worse for it. In '77 I'd transferred to the London W1 store where all the good stuff was and,in amongst the Thorens 160's we were selling (and I was setting up increasingly in addition to the LP12), we began trading in Rega decks against LP12's and even then, a traded in Planar 2 used to sound 'better' than a TD160/R200 arm, the Planar 3 being more 'substantial' in tone I remember.

A ramble about the R200. I didn't really know the Pioneer PL71 deck (it came and went very quickly while we sold the Technics pre-quartz models) so didn't get to know the donor arm for the R200. Rega obviously did a deal with the Japanese manufacturers and had the PL71 arm scaled down a bit, although the important bits were still there but with a plastic tapered spacer for fixed tonearm height. It was and still is a bloody good detachable shell arm and mine played host to the totally unmatched Decca Microscanner when I had my TD125 a few years ago, which I should have kept (long story). I'm told the horizontal bearings are gravity loaded, which is just as well as many R200's have vertical play/end shake here, which disappears when set up with a cartridge. The arms destined for the Planar 3 were selected out of the bulk trays they came on for minimum vertical end-shake in these bearings and in addition, some thick sleeving was pushed over the lateral balance shaft and the weight forced tight to it before being locked in place (big story about the PL12-D and this weight causing extra resonances).

The decks were also made with care, which may surprise people possibly. The main bearing shafts were individually examined and many rejected with surface flaws, some of which would have had no affect on playback quality I think. Very simple and effective brass bearing housing with a curved bottom holding a steel ball, polished spindle with skimmed plastic hub above and radiused edge to the bottom, this bearing would run without the ball, albeit with drag and with the ball and the usual few drops of EP80 gear oil (no sintered sleeves to possibly damage), this bearing runs for decades with very low friction and very low noise, the only issue being the EP80 dries up and needs cleaning and re-charging every ten-fifteen years or so. The only wear is usually a slight 'dimple' at the centre of the flat tip where the ball contacts it. Changing said ball to a ceramic type actually makes things far worse and this 'dimple' on the spindle tip is rendered far worse very quickly I found and Rega don't recommend it. No need either as the main source of noise through the stylus is the vibrating motor and belt drive.. More later.

Enough for now? More later but my brain's just blown a fuse (I don't have fancy graphene fuse equivalents in it to make it work better, so it needs a break).
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Re: Rega ramblings...

Unread post by Berty bass »

A welcome respite from the increased preponderance of inter-Forum vitriol that's constituted a significant proportion of recent posts - thank you. Being a happy Rega P6, Elicit-R and RX5 owner (to go with my Phono 2, of course!) I look forward to future instalments with great interest.

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Re: Rega ramblings...

Unread post by guydarryl »

I bought my Planar 2 (wooden surround) in about '76 at Grahams (Pentonville road).
Together with a Quad 22/ii's and Wharfdale Glendales I thought it was the dogs bollocks - my first "serious" music system.
If I remember correctly QED 79 strand cable outer was used on the counter weight arm to stop resonances as I was told at the time. Still have the Rega 2 in my loft, and still have very happy memories of listening to the set up in my bedroom by the light of the KT66's, a sandlewood joss stick, a role up and my faithful Collie cross by my side. I bought a weighted device that stuck on the plinth (was it monitor audio?) that lifted the arm at end of side if I wasn't capable of doing so myself :)
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Re: Rega ramblings...

Unread post by Nigel »

Fantastic write up, Dave. Already looking forward to reading the next instalment.
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Re: Rega ramblings...

Unread post by Dr Bunsen Honeydew »

Thanks Dave just the sort of stuff I was hoping you would come up with.

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Re: Rega ramblings...

Unread post by CN211276 »

Very informative. I was not aware of the origin of the arm on my original Rega 3.
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Re: Rega ramblings...

Unread post by _D_S_J_R_ »

The R200 is a very good if very basic tonearm and when working, the magnetic bias correction is a fine refinement. The connecting toothed belt fatigues and breaks up, but I remember finding an equivalent years ago from I think a Mitsubishi video recorder ('course I can't bloody remember which one!). These belts are being found again as long as those that have don't abuse the situation regarding price. Tonearm cables are ok but some get snagged and need replacement - may be a bodge too far now, but mine has a Cardas socket fitted so I can use a conventional exit cable and sounds no worse for it ;) can't use it properly on a Rega deck though now, as it's too deep underneath - cough - ...

Siting these decks has always been critical for best performance, minimum feedback and most important, best 'musical' performance. Site the things on a bad resonant surface and they 'sound' absolute shite, but at the other extreme, their wall shelf placed on a solid wall away from corners preferably, gives them a clarity in the bass which surprised me when I first heard them used that way.

The motor has been an issue. Those cheap? little Philips/Airpax motors vibrate like crazy given half a chance and the Planar 2 and 3 in original form weren't that wonderful that way. The 2 had a cap and resistor to make the motor work and the 3 had two caps on the little board and I think the motor was slightly better for it. The motor had a rubber belt to suspend it from the top laminate on the plinth (something else to ramble about later) and setting this needed care if not a certain skill. A new clean belt would result in the motor dancing all over when starting and 'flashing' on the belt could cause it to run up and down when running, but as the belt polished in, both aspects disappeared (some belts needed a gentle polish to help them when new), the motor tilting over when starting and then coming back to almost vertical once the platter reached speed. Vibration isolation was very fair, but on a seriously good system or headphones, a little 'drone-harmonics' could be there in the background. The decks also used to run slightly fast, this on every one and as viewed with an accurate battery 300hz Linn strobe (Rega do their own now and it's the same with that). The external Neo 24V supply for later motors, offers fine speed adjustment so the bloody things can now be set correctly! The better white belt offers less wow than the stock belt I gather but speed accuracy on lower models goes to shit although it's still not hugely audible unless directly compared to a reference.

Later Planar 3 decks and I think the 2-2000 and OEM decks they were making by then post 2000 approx, first used a more complex 120V motor board which drastically cut vibration and allowed the motors to be 'stuck' to the top laminate. Done properly, this has several benefits, not least pitch stability and 'wow' in general and all Regas now have fixed motors. In more recent years, the 120V motor was replaced with a 24VAC motor which may or may not be better, but it does allow external better quality supplies to be used. the little board on the deck has trimming which can balance and 'trim' the phases of the motor better, removing even more vibration, but only with the more sophisticated supplies. A pal has a Planar 6 and a couple of 1200mk2 Techies (don't ask) and uses both types with no issues. The Planar 6 was preceded some years back by the Planar 25, which looked nice with a tapered wooden trim around it and it did 'sound' slightly better than the 3 model. Tonearm exit cables were Klotz (AC110) as used in the mk1 'Couple' interconnect and the arm was a plain unpainted finish.

In 1983 (October) the RB arms came along. Now, huge opinion split here but I honestly don't think the arm designs can take *all* the blame - I know some may totally disagree. Thing is, many MM cartridges as used in these decks were ripe and dull in balance and the decks not always well sited. Put all this together and the result can be a bit bland and colourless. I did use the RB300 on the LP12 and over the next few years, Linn changed the armboard as well as the sub-chassis (prior to the Cirkus) and the RB300 started to sound better even on this deck when still in 'fruitbox' mode. It wasn't until I heard an RB300 on the NAS Spacedeck back in 1988 that I really 'got' how good this arm *can* be, the collet mounting allowing height adjustment and the deck's lively nature really balancing well, the whole an excellent musical listen (especially with an AT-F5 which is now the £200-ish AT-F7). Not liked by bodgers as much as everything is stainless steel, tightly bolted and torqued up and difficult for third parties to re-assemble once taken apart, all manner of criticisms have been levelled at it from the finger lift to the tracking force spring, yet Rega re-jigged the casting internals and 'fixed' these criticisms at a stroke, so so much for reviewers knowing it all... Current RB330's are more refined and arm-board kinder I feel, while not being 'so' different from the 1983 article. The bias correction is still magnetic and set too high in my experience, although this varies with the cartridge needs. Most mid priced ellipticals including their own, seem to need 1.75g tracking and 1g set on the bias corrector.

The RB250 uses brass in the pillar and bearing fixings and is apparently far easier to take apart and re-assemble, making it ripe for bodging in all meanings of the term, which I feel it's why so many third party 'versions' are based on this donor product. Best I shut up about some of these, but some seem to work (Michell) and others - don't - to me anyway. I don't know the current cheaper Rega arms so well now, but the simplest ones have fixed bias correction, plastic? bearings and although fine for a cheaper deck (better than Pro-ject offerings), I think the RB330 is a clear step up myself. The 'better' variants have better exit cabling, a finer finish and possibly posher bearings which make beggar all audible difference imo although the faster they can rotate accounts for the difference in rating (useless in a tonearm though but it's a conversation point).

Before I shuffle off tonight and continuing on the tonearm mounting material, I do think the Rega arms are fussy on the armboard material and aluminium isn't always the best stuff to use in my experience. Rega changed the plinth materials a few times and I understand it wasn't always their choice. I don't believe kitchen worktops are as thin as a Rega plinth, but getting the right finish and quantity of laminated mdf or whatever isn't easy for a small manufacturer, when a year's production (as was) would take but a couple of hours for a board maker to prepare - too little. I think Rega are bigger than this now and they can now better specify what materials they want and the colour/finish needed. The best example is probably the baby bargain Planar 1, which does look superbly 'clothed' these days and not as rough round the edges as the first RP1's were. They make a LOT of Planar 1's I gather and it's very cheap in today's money.

Oh shit, there's the platter types as well... back in the mid 70's, float glass was apparently cheaper than small scale gearing up for an aluminium casting which needs turning and finishing off. The 3 had a thicker platter than the 2 and corresponding thinner mat after a few years. The first 2's had a Linn hard ribbed rubber mat with 'Linn products' scraped off (Linn didn't start with the felt mat until 75 or 76 I remember). I think the general consensus was that the felt/wool mats were better for 'sonic' reasons although like the Linn ones, they fluffed up after some years and the 'sound' goes off. The Planar 6 and 8 use layered glass to add mass and current platters don't have the edge stain which used to give a slightly green tinge to the glass colouring. The Planar 2-2000 went for an MDF platter with slanted edge, which Rega 'aluminised' with silver paint on the outer edge. We thought these platters and the plainer relatives on the OEM decks they were making for Akai, NAD, Moth and Goldring, did take some 'glare' out of the Planar 2 sonics and with more modern cartridges, this worked well. The current '1' models use 'phenolic resin' (Bakelite?) platters which may not always be 'true' when rotating, but they look smart and 'sound' just fine..

Effin' ell, have I typed all that shit above? Hope some of you find this interesting... Loads more to get out too (I hope it's pretty correct) and I haven't started on the cartridges yet - :shock:

I seem to get even more dyslexic in my typing the more tired I get, so excuse any gross typing errors. I've tried to go back and correct the worst ones...
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Re: Rega ramblings...

Unread post by guydarryl »

good read :clap:
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Re: Rega ramblings...

Unread post by Classicrock »

Thanks Dave. Looking forward to part 2. The RB300 worked fine on the Gyro I had. Bias wasn't an issue as I just adjusted by ear - about a 1/4 gram lower than playing weight usually which backs up it being too strong. I even found the Origin Live mod you hate worked quite well in my case. Contrary to some reviewers claims the SME 309 shows the arms limitations. I just didn't like the sound much of the earlier P3. I did find that in many respects it was equal to my TD160S in a dealers. I found the Linn Axis to be a worthwhile improvement at the time (1988). The new ones I've heard P3 and P6 certainly produces a different sound. More open but more hi-fi (better cartridges being used and neo PS). I think they are very competitive for the money but I'm wondering about the longevity of the fancy foam used on the upper models. This is deliberately left exposed on the new skeletal P8 and to me doesn't match the finish I expect at this price level.
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Re: Rega ramblings...

Unread post by _D_S_J_R_ »

HiFi and music in some of these differences methinks. Some peeps listen for leading edge precision and basic clarity first and I admit I tend to go for the melodic aspects first. A TD160/R200 just didn't' have the 'together' feel of a Rega back in the late 70's (maybe the slightly fast running Rega helped psychologically?).

When I compared an LP12 with a Planar 3/R200 up at Linn (trusting they didn't skew the dem), the Rega made piano notes kind of run together in comparison. It's this very gentle 'slurring' that I remember, although looking back, getting the tonearm and main bearing firmly tight on the plinth board helped a lot and this is an aspect that current models seem to have much work done. I got the same differences at work, so fir me at least, it was repeatable. A Rega deck with loosened RB arm was a disaster to me.

I can't speak with full background 'proof' on the cartridges, but by the late 70's, it appears a generic Japanese cartridge body became the base for a number of different models. Off the top of my head, the Fidelity Research MM's, Supex SM100E, Grace F9 series (I think) and I'm sure others, became established here and from this, the famous A&R 77 range and Rega R100 model also used this body I think (they looked the same under the fixings and measured similarly so I feel fairly safe in this conclusion). A&R selected the best bodies for the top P77 model I gather and this one became a classic (I think ESCo still supply styli for it as they did when the model was current in its later times).

We liked and sold hundreds (literally) R100 cartridges. The balance was classic bass up top down but seamless, basically clear and utterly musical. I have one here and apart from the 'gentle' balance, it is a very effective cartridge still. Fitted to an RB300 though, it could sound dull. The A&R E77 was similar but to me, not 'quite' as smooth up top, the P77 adding a sparkle over the basic balance.

In the mid 80's, Rega launched the RB100 cartridge. This was made by Goldring and lacked a user replaceable stylus assembly. Gawd this thing was horrible! Listened on its own with Rega speakers, it didn't sound too bad, but things were changing and 'digital' was starting to make serious inroads to high quality music reproduction (another argument here i don't want to get into). Used in a less tailored system, the RB100 just sounded dull dull dull and the high frequency measurements were dire. Surface noise and distortion were low though, but I kind of gave up then. By then, the K9 had appeared and we went over to this in the Planar 3/RB300 (I think the VM95EN or VM95ML styli may just make for a great K9 stylus replacement).

A little later, Rega began making their own MM cartridges and they do to this day. It's a fascinating procedure to watch these being put together and stylus/cantilever apart, Rega do everything else I believe, from forming the pole pieces in a deep cruciform, winding and fitting the coils and inserting this into the body with four tiny holes around the cantilever aperture the pole tips locate in. The tool for the body moulding is a work of art I remember and every cartridge was set up on a shadow mask to get the stylus aligned and channel balance was done by adjusting the coil assemblies inside. Performance wise, these again are VERY old fashioned, with a deep hf suckout followed by a peak (Shure M55E owners will love it ;)). The styli and magnet assemblies came from Europe in little pots of a hundred or so and the diamonds always looked well made and polished. I find all of them 'squidgy' and even the tail tweaking of the current models hasn't helped. if you have a translator, the German Lowbeats site has full reviews of all of them, starting with the AT91 derived Carbon, which 'measures' better than all of 'em imo. (the Carbon is an interesting cheap relative of the later Linn Basik cartridge) - https://www.lowbeats.de/test-rega-carbo ... insteiger/

Best of these is the Exact 2, but I'm not a fan.

I'm hugely fond of the Rega Carbon and to this day, still can't see what exactly the difference is between the AT91 and the cheaper AT3600 models. The tracking force should be just under 2g in my experience as going higher makes the sound clogged and muffled. Jico made elliptical styli can be got from Thakker in Germany (EPO-E) and this much refines the high frequencies, but if buying straight off, an AT VM95E would probably be my choice as far better styli can be got later.

For the more interesting bits, Rega developed their first MC type some years back now in the Apheta. Bloody hell it was good and raw like a Decca - I loved it to bits! A bit 'wild' for the kind of Top End vinyl systems where refinement means taking all the music out, it was definitely not kind to bad pressings and to me, had more in keeping with say a Dynavector 17D model than their 20mk2 (if anyone knows these). More recently, it's been usefully tamed in a mk2 version and joined by a gentler cheaper model, the Ania, which is delightful to me. Unlike practically all other MC types, the stylus assembly isn't held fore and aft by a tie wire. Asking a lot of the suspension block, but they seem to have it mastered I think. Again, reviews, measurements and sound bites on Lowbeats.

Is all this 'stuff' making any sense and is it worth reading?
Hanging on in quiet desperation is the English way...The time has gone, The song is over, Thought I'd something more to say...

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