Houdini

[SteveTheShadow]

Interesting.
SME even advised the use of a cocktail stick, to poke any excess compound out of the headshell holes, with my 1979 arm
They were probably trying to reduce the energy fed into the arm, when people tried to use MC cartridges in them, so prior to the MC revival there had been no perceived need for it. Of course it was a futile bodge as rigid arms soon started appearing for MCs. Goo however, works a treat with my MM cart, so its definitely doing something good.

There’s very little literature online about it. I did however find this, after a lot of searching.
https://www.vinylengine.com/turntable_f ... hp?t=75080

They are sceptical of course, apart from a guy called ‘nat’ who did actually use the stuff.
Nobody seems bothered these days, so charge an arm and a leg for something that does the same job as a pea sized ball of Black-Tack, surround it with a bullshit story and suddenly it’s the latest and greatest innovation. The last word in analogue replay. ARA and the Doc must be pissing themselves up there

[NSNO2021]

I have had my SME 3009 S II Imp since 1977 (bought new) and it didn't come with and compound, it isn't still in the box either.
[/quote]

Its never too late to send it back

[Geoff.R.G]

I have had my SME 3009 S II Imp since 1977 (bought new) and it didn't come with and compound, it isn't still in the box either.

Its never too late to send it back

Send? My mother lives not far from Steyning, I'd deliver it by hand.

[SteveTheShadow]

I’ll add a disclaimer to this lot though:
Don’t try this with your Benz Glider!

I’ve had a bit of a think. The Series 2 SME arm is from bygone era and in today's terms, its rigidity is questionable and that's being kind, what with the nylon knife-edges and soup strainer headshell. The underside of said head-shell, is not even flat, because the cartridge mounting holes, form pips on the underside, which means the cartridge is only in contact with the headshell at two points, and is able microscopically, to rock back and forth with abandon. In terms of vinyl groove dimensions and the wavelengths involved, this is seriously floppy, no matter how tight the bolts are done up, so maybe the goop was provided to stabilise any cart, not just the MCs that were just starting to be pushed by the industry at the end of the 1970s.

My little bodge with the black adhesive compound actually provides, on this particular headshell, a more damped and stable fixing than a pair of bolts. SME cartridge bonding compound was there for the same purpose, so one could reasonably expect a significant improvement in sound and that’s exactly what happened. The fact that nobody I know of ever used SME’s goop doesn’t mean it was a bad Idea. As the brains behind SME, ARA would have had a valid engineering reason for supplying it.

Now, one could argue that the simplest option would be to have fitted a better, more rigid head-shell, but I’ve done this and the cartridge doesn’t sound as good in an Audio Technica cast alloy headshell as it does stuck to the stock SME one. I go on what I hear and the improvements are repeatable and demonstrable.

The problem with the Series II improved arm is that it is not fit for today’s high-end cartridges and why would it be? It’s from a different era and worked with that era's high end carts, not this. We therefore have to either work with it, use a compliant MM and embrace its design principles or get a modern arm. Going between the two principles IMV gives the worst of both worlds, with the consequent wooly sound that the hi-fi press attribute quite wrongly, I’ve just discovered, to this classic tonearm.

Damping of unwanted vibration rather than rigidity and efficient transmission is how it works in engineering terms. Both are equally valid principles and the damping principle, which fits with the arm's engineering ethos, is how the thinking has gone with these experiments. It’s not voodoo. The results give wide bandwidth, and excellent reproduction of the frequency extremes which easily compare with a modern rigid arm. Despite all the improvements I got, the rigid jobs will probably still beat this old clunker hands down on jump factor and dynamics, but I like the easy going wide-band sound available from this combo, if it is used exactly as it was intended, goop and everything.

[Geoff.R.G]

I’ll add a disclaimer to this lot though:
Don’t try this with your Benz Glider!

I’ve had a bit of a think. The Series 2 SME arm is from bygone era and in today's terms, its rigidity is questionable and that's being kind, what with the nylon knife-edges and soup strainer headshell. The underside of said head-shell, is not even flat, because the cartridge mounting holes, form pips on the underside, which means the cartridge is only in contact with the headshell at two points, and is able microscopically, to rock back and forth with abandon. In terms of vinyl groove dimensions and the wavelengths involved, this is seriously floppy, no matter how tight the bolts are done up, so maybe the goop was provided to stabilise any cart, not just the MCs that were just starting to be pushed by the industry at the end of the 1970s.

My little bodge with the black adhesive compound actually provides, on this particular headshell, a more damped and stable fixing than a pair of bolts. SME cartridge bonding compound was there for the same purpose, so one could reasonably expect a significant improvement in sound and that’s exactly what happened. The fact that nobody I know of ever used SME’s goop doesn’t mean it was a bad Idea. As the brains behind SME, ARA would have had a valid engineering reason for supplying it.

Now, one could argue that the simplest option would be to have fitted a better, more rigid head-shell, but I’ve done this and the cartridge doesn’t sound as good in an Audio Technica cast alloy headshell as it does stuck to the stock SME one. I go on what I hear and the improvements are repeatable and demonstrable.

The problem with the Series II improved arm is that it is not fit for today’s high-end cartridges and why would it be? It’s from a different era and worked with that era's high end carts, not this. We therefore have to either work with it, use a compliant MM and embrace its design principles or get a modern arm. Going between the two principles IMV gives the worst of both worlds, with the consequent wooly sound that the hi-fi press attribute quite wrongly, I’ve just discovered, to this classic tonearm.

Damping of unwanted vibration rather than rigidity and efficient transmission is how it works in engineering terms. Both are equally valid principles and the damping principle, which fits with the arm's engineering ethos, is how the thinking has gone with these experiments. It’s not voodoo. The results give wide bandwidth, and excellent reproduction of the frequency extremes which easily compare with a modern rigid arm. Despite all the improvements I got, the rigid jobs will probably still beat this old clunker hands down on jump factor and dynamics, but I like the easy going wide-band sound available from this combo, if it is used exactly as it was intended, goop and everything.

As I said there was no compound in the box and it isn't mentioned in the installation instructions, I downloaded a copy only a couple of days ago and it isn't mentioned. Now it is entirely possible that it was added later and a slip of paper in the box described its use. I suppose the resurgence of the moving coil cartridge may have driven SME to add this compound and it only appeared briefly until the Series III, designed for MCs, arrived.

The other thing I note is that your headshell isn't the latest, it has the old SME script not the current one, so it is possible that the later headshell was flatter internally and thus better controlled the cartridge. Either way I think your observations are correct, the arm is perfectly capable with the appropriate cartridge but the knife edge bearings aren't suitable for low compliance moving coils. My cartridge is nearly as old as the arm.

[Latteman]

I have a GL101 tonearm and ADC phase mm I’m going to try this with.
The magnet in my Mp200 stylus is bonded with a red gloop- anyone know what that could be?

[Geoff.R.G]

Interesting.
SME even advised the use of a cocktail stick, to poke any excess compound out of the headshell holes, with my 1979 arm
They were probably trying to reduce the energy fed into the arm, when people tried to use MC cartridges in them, so prior to the MC revival there had been no perceived need for it. Of course it was a futile bodge as rigid arms soon started appearing for MCs. Goo however, works a treat with my MM cart, so its definitely doing something good.

There’s very little literature online about it. I did however find this, after a lot of searching.
https://www.vinylengine.com/turntable_f ... hp?t=75080

They are sceptical of course, apart from a guy called ‘nat’ who did actually use the stuff.
Nobody seems bothered these days, so charge an arm and a leg for something that does the same job as a pea sized ball of Black-Tack, surround it with a bullshit story and suddenly it’s the latest and greatest innovation. The last word in analogue replay. ARA and the Doc must be pissing themselves up there

That link explains much, it implies that the compound was included with the fluid damper not the bare arm.

[SteveTheShadow]

I definitely got the stuff with my 1979 arm.

[Vinyl-ant]

Is it this stuff?

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SME-Cartridg ... 890.l49292

[SteveTheShadow]

Yep, That's it, and on the first pic, you can read the bit I mentioned earlier about poking the gunk out with a cocktail stick, to neaten the appearance. I was seriously beginning to think I was losing my marbles.
It does say to fit the screws in the usual way, but I prefer the sound without them, using my own compound. YMMV and all that.