What is better?

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Daniel Quinn
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What is better?

Unread post by Daniel Quinn »

If an inductor is simply copper wire wound ,how can a new one be better than a vintage one?

This got me thinking .

With electronic parts how can thier be a difference ? Capacitors ,inductors ,resistors .

There made of the same thing aren't they ?

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Re: What is better?

Unread post by Ithilstone »

Nope - not the same thing - manufacturing processes change ( 9 out of 10 times for better) - material used to make stuff change etc - and new materials not existing 20-30 or 50 years ago are now used in manufacturing same As new technologies.
Yes some old stuff might be better sonically but it would be marginal number.
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Re: What is better?

Unread post by slinger »

I think one could probably make a case for variances in capacitors. I come at this from a guitarist's perspective, and for starters, ceramic capacitors aren't the same. -There are two different ceramic capacitor classes, and the value can be consistent within 1% for expensive types or vary from +80/-20% for cheapos (as often found in knock-off guitars). Some ceramic caps can even be a bit microphonic, and the heat from stage sights can also affect the cheapo caps a lot more than decent high-spec caps.

Gibson introduced the Sprague Orange Drop cap for their tone controls in the sixties and they're still the accepted gold standard, simply because of their tight, consistent specs. Even Orange Drops come in two "flavours" though, metalized polyester film and metal foil polypropylene film. Sprague went out of business some time ago, bur Cornell Dubilier Electronics (CDE) bought the name, and they're still very highly regarded. How much of that is simply placebo effect these days I can't say, but guitars are always more "desirable" if they're fitted with orange drop caps, and Orange Drops are a recognised "upgrade" path.

Of course, some people swear by Russian military-grade paper-in-oil tone caps too. :lol:
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Re: What is better?

Unread post by savvypaul »

Only the things that matter, matter. The skill is in knowing what does and what doesn't. Experience counts.

You can change everything old for everything new, if you want to (and like wasting some of your money). Anyone who tells you to change everything as a matter of course is probably best ignored, especially if they can't credibly explain why. Amateurs with OCD will usually disagree with that, though.
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Re: What is better?

Unread post by Daniel Quinn »

I accept that paper in oil or silver make an audible difference.

But for example power supply caps, resistors ,inductors .there made of the same stuff, therefore shouldn't sound different.

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Re: What is better?

Unread post by Lindsayt »

Ithilstone wrote: Thu Mar 18, 2021 5:31 pm Nope - not the same thing - manufacturing processes change ( 9 out of 10 times for better) - material used to make stuff change etc - and new materials not existing 20-30 or 50 years ago are now used in manufacturing same As new technologies.
Yes some old stuff might be better sonically but it would be marginal number.
Richard Dunn reported that electronic components, including resistors had gotten worse since the 1960's.

With them being over-engineered in those days. And over time changes made so that they could be manufactured cheaper and cheaper.

I'm very much inclined to agree with him.

Of course there will be marketing bullshit to claim that the latest is the best ever. But that's all it is. Marketing hot air.

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Re: What is better?

Unread post by Ithilstone »

Daniel Quinn wrote: Thu Mar 18, 2021 9:35 pm I accept that paper in oil or silver make an audible difference.

But for example power supply caps, resistors ,inductors .there made of the same stuff, therefore shouldn't sound different.
As Doc was saying - never change what's is working - so changing elements just for the sake of it or "servicing" is a big no no
but if something goes wrong change it for quality component. (and very rarely it means buying overpriced audio dedicated ones - Richard often said look what is inside good pro audio gear)

Lindsayt wrote: Fri Mar 19, 2021 1:25 am
Richard Dunn reported that electronic components, including resistors had gotten worse since the 1960's.

With them being over-engineered in those days. And over time changes made so that they could be manufactured cheaper and cheaper.

I'm very much inclined to agree with him.

Of course there will be marketing bullshit to claim that the latest is the best ever. But that's all it is. Marketing hot air.
I had many conversations about it with Doc - and what you say is partly right but...
There is way more manufacturers those days - many of them do stuff as cheap as possible as that
there is way less demand for quality parts those days
there is a lot of overpriced audio bullshit

But there is a number of manufacturers that produce quality stuff just in comparison to rest of the market those tend to be more expensive. It is like with Shinkoh resistors - Richard said that Audio Note equivalent is as good just that he cannot justified the price - as Shinkoh was the best and when they stopped manufacturing prices went sky high and Audio Note used it to bump up and keep its prices way higher than Shinkoh when they were still making them...
In old days there was a lot of quality stuff and prices were reasonable now there is way less demand fot them so proces are higher.
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Re: What is better?

Unread post by Daniel Quinn »

Do shinkoh resistors have something which you can point to being better or is it just reputation.

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Re: What is better?

Unread post by karatestu »

Best component is no component :grin:
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Re: What is better?

Unread post by valvesRus »

karatestu wrote: Fri Mar 19, 2021 9:57 pm Best component is no component :grin:
That is cobblers Stu. :lol: , If taken to it's logical conclusion then you end up with no components, and no amplifier.

If you mean the fewer the components - the better the amp, then that is debatable. :)

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