Cartridge for Pro-Ject Debut II

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TheMarlin
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Re: Cartridge for Pro-Ject Debut II

Unread post by TheMarlin »

Fretless wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 10:06 am "... and what has happened to the humble Pro-Ject Debut?" I hear you cry. "Has it been condemned to the great attic in the sky, full of forgotten and discarded audio apparatus?".

No, it hasn't (sighs of online relief) - it has been quietly sitting and waiting for a cartridge. After months of travel, postal vagaries and the infinite bungling of Brexit-regulated customs there has arrived a neat little Goldring Elan, provided by the immense kindness of HFS-stalwart 'The Marlin' (he of the many jokes & funnies).

Image

The Goldring Elan is a budget workhorse, designed to operate under almost any circumstances and looked to be a good match for this TT. Fitting was a tricky process as the unit is quite small and extremely light; so light that I was unable to set the tracking weight at first as the counterweight couldn't go any further up the arm. Then I remembered the Debut's removable finger-lift, added that and the extra grams of mass were just enough to give me useable tracking force.

Soundwise the Debut / Elan combo is FUN! Bouncy, punchy with surprisingly sharp detail and imaging. Bass isn't too deep but comes across as well-defined and foot-tappingly hefty. Putting an old favourite on, 'Angel Station' from Manfred Mann's Earth Band, I was transported back in time as the LP sounded exactly as I remembered it from my teenage years. Brilliant!

Image

A photo for the archives of the Logic and Debut together. Excuse the messy cardboard under the Pro-Ject - temporary fix to level it out for a listen. Putting the DM101 back into the system did reveal what the Debut lacks - but it has acquitted itself well with the Elan cartridge and will serve nicely as a backup TT for the foreseeable future.

Thanks again to The Marlin.

Next stop - Grado Signature MCZ. Stay tuned. :dance:
My pleasure sir.

The Goldring Elan and Electra are identical, the only difference being the Elan has a conical stylus.
So, finding an Elektra stylus might give a slightly different sound.

For those who don’t know, the Elan/Elektra are not made to a Goldring design, but we’re in fact designed for Goldring by Nagoaka.
They sound almost identical to the Nagoaka MP110, loads of detail, very musical, punchy, a really enjoyable budget cartridge that punches way above its weight, and runs rings around a 2M Red.

I may have a spare unused Elektra cartridge, will have a hint around for you :)
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Fretless (Sun Apr 17, 2022 11:19 pm)
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Modded Lenco GL75 with Saturn arm, heavy custom plinth. Nagaoka MP500.
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Fretless
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Re: Cartridge for Pro-Ject Debut II

Unread post by Fretless »

Thanks for that, Mr Marlin. I had been considering the Nagaoka MP-110 for the Logic when I pulled it out of the attic.

If you do run into that Elektra stylus then I'd be very happy to experiment with it.

:grin: :guiness;

Upstairs:
Vinyl
Pro-Ject 1.2 + Grado Sig Jr + Cambridge Alva Duo
DigiVolumio PC + Kiss DP-500 + Sabaj A20d
NVA: P50sa - Cube2 - SSP - LS6+ Sabaj A10a (x2)
Downstairs:
Vinyl
Logic DM101 + Syrinx LE1 + Grado Sig MCX
DigiDenafrips Ares II + Volumio PC + Cambridge CXC
NVA: P50 - BMU+ Aiyima A07 MAX (x2) + Arcam One
HP: HifiBerry Digi+ PRO + Sabaj A10d
Office:
Allo DigiOne SIG + SMSL M300se + Douk G4 (x2)
Mission 760 + Monolith THX AAA 887
Headphones: German Maestro, Monolith & AQ

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Re: Cartridge for Pro-Ject Debut II

Unread post by Fretless »

Further experimentation:

Image

The return of NVA! The P50sa and A40 stereo combo is back in place with the Cube2's. Pondering this afternoon, I remembered another reserve-amplifier that has previously done duty as a headphone amp; a 1974 Kenwood KA1400B.

This little amp has 2 phono inputs and I reckoned that putting that in as a phono stage, output via the 'Tape Rec' sockets into the P50sa, then this would give me a working system where I can implement the ART phono when it arrives.

For the time-being all the digital components have been disconnected and this rig is now all-analogue!

Soundwise: the connection is now stable, no crackling or channel dropouts, the NVA A40 has a more relaxed, 'liquid' character than the Kenwood KA4010, which has a powerful, 'in-your-face' edge.

The temporary phono stage does have a very 70's, somewhat muffled reproduction that lacks dynamics but is easy to listen to. A familiar sound that takes me back to student days.

My expectation is that the ART phono stage will kick new life into this system. For the moment it can be simply enjoyed without having to frequently mess with the selector switch.

:dance:
These users thanked the author Fretless for the post (total 2):
antonio66 (Mon Apr 18, 2022 5:36 am) • Firebug1 (Mon Apr 18, 2022 10:02 am)

Upstairs:
Vinyl
Pro-Ject 1.2 + Grado Sig Jr + Cambridge Alva Duo
DigiVolumio PC + Kiss DP-500 + Sabaj A20d
NVA: P50sa - Cube2 - SSP - LS6+ Sabaj A10a (x2)
Downstairs:
Vinyl
Logic DM101 + Syrinx LE1 + Grado Sig MCX
DigiDenafrips Ares II + Volumio PC + Cambridge CXC
NVA: P50 - BMU+ Aiyima A07 MAX (x2) + Arcam One
HP: HifiBerry Digi+ PRO + Sabaj A10d
Office:
Allo DigiOne SIG + SMSL M300se + Douk G4 (x2)
Mission 760 + Monolith THX AAA 887
Headphones: German Maestro, Monolith & AQ

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Re: Cartridge for Pro-Ject Debut II

Unread post by Fretless »

Owwww! Bright light! Bright light!

Image

They weren't kidding with the warnings about that blue LED on this unit. Drastic action will need to be taken.

First thing you notice about the ART DJ Pre II is its weight, for a small device it feels really solid like a guitar pedal. Probably down to this being designed in the USA by a bunch of musicians and audio fans, meant to be for onstage use and on-the-road gigging.

Image

Power is from a small wall-wart, connect it up and off we go. Blue is on (there is no off-switch!), a rotary knob adjusts the gain with a green LED showing the signal and this turns red when clipping happens. I set it at -2 which appears to be comfortable.
There are two buttons: one switches the capacitance between 100 and 200 pF. Grado cartridges are supposedly insensitive to capacitance so I'll leave that for now. The other is a low-cut filter that is to reduce rumble; a quick check had me turning this on as the bass was a bit flabby/woolly.

And .... how does it sound? Straight out of the box, no burn-in? Damn good already!

First album on is Camel's terrific 'Rain Dances' and Richard Sinclair's elastic bass-work is very clear and well-defined. There is a dry, neutral clarity to the sound that has this simple turntable coming over as a very musical performer.

Looking forward to seeing what a bit of running-in does to the SQ of this phono stage but I'm already impressed for my 70 euros and it makes a perfect partner for the budget-audiophile ProJect / Grado deck.

:dance:
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antonio66 (Thu Apr 21, 2022 4:31 am)

Upstairs:
Vinyl
Pro-Ject 1.2 + Grado Sig Jr + Cambridge Alva Duo
DigiVolumio PC + Kiss DP-500 + Sabaj A20d
NVA: P50sa - Cube2 - SSP - LS6+ Sabaj A10a (x2)
Downstairs:
Vinyl
Logic DM101 + Syrinx LE1 + Grado Sig MCX
DigiDenafrips Ares II + Volumio PC + Cambridge CXC
NVA: P50 - BMU+ Aiyima A07 MAX (x2) + Arcam One
HP: HifiBerry Digi+ PRO + Sabaj A10d
Office:
Allo DigiOne SIG + SMSL M300se + Douk G4 (x2)
Mission 760 + Monolith THX AAA 887
Headphones: German Maestro, Monolith & AQ

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Re: Cartridge for Pro-Ject Debut II

Unread post by Fretless »

The ART phono has settled in a bit and is impressing me in a pleasantly surprising way. It doesn't have the rich elegance of the NVA phono stage but does give a lively and harmonious performance that has you forgetting the relative simplicity of the setup. Just had one of Bruford's Jazz-Rock albums on and was amazed at the clarity of Jeff Berlin's ultra-complex basslines.

The next step is to try the higher-level Grado 8MZ stylus in the cartridge. This system now definitely has the capacity to utilise that!

:music-listening: :music-listen: :music-listening:

Upstairs:
Vinyl
Pro-Ject 1.2 + Grado Sig Jr + Cambridge Alva Duo
DigiVolumio PC + Kiss DP-500 + Sabaj A20d
NVA: P50sa - Cube2 - SSP - LS6+ Sabaj A10a (x2)
Downstairs:
Vinyl
Logic DM101 + Syrinx LE1 + Grado Sig MCX
DigiDenafrips Ares II + Volumio PC + Cambridge CXC
NVA: P50 - BMU+ Aiyima A07 MAX (x2) + Arcam One
HP: HifiBerry Digi+ PRO + Sabaj A10d
Office:
Allo DigiOne SIG + SMSL M300se + Douk G4 (x2)
Mission 760 + Monolith THX AAA 887
Headphones: German Maestro, Monolith & AQ

TheMarlin
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Re: Cartridge for Pro-Ject Debut II

Unread post by TheMarlin »

I’m a big fan of the Schiit Mani for MM. For the little it costs, they sound very detailed, and have a very engaging sound.

I’m using an Ear phono stage for MM, ans it’s is a lot better than the little Schiit, but it’s hasn’t totally embarrassed it either.

The Mani has great bang for your buck.

Am using a Tom Evens Groove for MC. Very nice.

Never tried an NVA Phono stage.
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Fretless (Sun Apr 24, 2022 10:35 am)
Modded Belles A150 MK2, P90SA, & NVA SSP cables, and LS5.
Leak Stereo 20 & First Audio Classic Copper V2
Modded Lenco GL75 with Saturn arm, heavy custom plinth. Nagaoka MP500.
Nottingham Audio Hyperspace + heavy kit, + Origin Live Conqueror + Koetsu Black
Tom Evans Micro Grove MK2 MC phono
Bluesound Node2i (x2) both with latest power upgrades.
Topping D90MQA and Topping D90SE
Audiolab 6000 CDT transport.
All NVA cables

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Re: Cartridge for Pro-Ject Debut II

Unread post by Fretless »

I was trying for a Schiit Mani but deliveries to Europe seem to have dried up and the new Mani 2 is only being supplied to their domestic market in the USA for now.

The ART is a cheap & cheerful step-in device that I got thinking that the system wouldn't need anything more revealing - the whole setup is really starting to come to life and I am already looking around for upgrade possibilities.

Hopeless case ... lock me up, please! :pray:

Upstairs:
Vinyl
Pro-Ject 1.2 + Grado Sig Jr + Cambridge Alva Duo
DigiVolumio PC + Kiss DP-500 + Sabaj A20d
NVA: P50sa - Cube2 - SSP - LS6+ Sabaj A10a (x2)
Downstairs:
Vinyl
Logic DM101 + Syrinx LE1 + Grado Sig MCX
DigiDenafrips Ares II + Volumio PC + Cambridge CXC
NVA: P50 - BMU+ Aiyima A07 MAX (x2) + Arcam One
HP: HifiBerry Digi+ PRO + Sabaj A10d
Office:
Allo DigiOne SIG + SMSL M300se + Douk G4 (x2)
Mission 760 + Monolith THX AAA 887
Headphones: German Maestro, Monolith & AQ

TheMarlin
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Re: Cartridge for Pro-Ject Debut II

Unread post by TheMarlin »

I have a spare Mani and Linea power supply and might let go. Was just going to keep it as a spare, but also have a spare Cambridge 640p as a second backup (good for MC carts).

Too much redundancy. Same it’s guitars. Got nearly 20 guitars right now, and one pair of hands.
These users thanked the author TheMarlin for the post (total 2):
slinger (Fri Apr 22, 2022 1:38 pm) • Fretless (Sun Apr 24, 2022 10:36 am)
Modded Belles A150 MK2, P90SA, & NVA SSP cables, and LS5.
Leak Stereo 20 & First Audio Classic Copper V2
Modded Lenco GL75 with Saturn arm, heavy custom plinth. Nagaoka MP500.
Nottingham Audio Hyperspace + heavy kit, + Origin Live Conqueror + Koetsu Black
Tom Evans Micro Grove MK2 MC phono
Bluesound Node2i (x2) both with latest power upgrades.
Topping D90MQA and Topping D90SE
Audiolab 6000 CDT transport.
All NVA cables

antonio66
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Re: Cartridge for Pro-Ject Debut II

Unread post by antonio66 »

Fretless wrote: Fri Apr 15, 2022 11:56 pm Tweaked the Project deck a bit:

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Apparently the successor to the 1.2 model is the X1 which has a vinyl platter. So I have implemented the spare, acrylic W-mat that I got for the Logic TT.

Then Arnold at Sowell in Gorinchem (we go way back - he sold me the deck 20 years ago) advised me that too much mass wasn't good for this turntable and recommended a clamp rather than a record weight.

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A search on Amazon quickly threw up a cheap n' cheerful LP clamp from Dynavox and I was ready to go again.

There is an absolutely tangible improvement in SQ from this setup now: less surface noise, more solidity, better-defined bass. What you could describe as a thoroughly satisfying budget-audiophile rig.

Currently playing that battered copy of 'Wish You Were Here' again and it is sounding just great!

:banana-jumprope:
Well after reading reading all your exploits, plus I got an offer of an extra £4 off, I've just gone and ordered this, looks the same as yours, a copy of a Michell clamp.
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Fretless (Sat Apr 23, 2022 8:09 am)

antonio66
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Re: Cartridge for Pro-Ject Debut II

Unread post by antonio66 »

Missed off the link from the above post https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/175009115257

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