New Adventures In HiFi

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Marqymarq
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Re: New Adventures In HiFi

Unread post by Marqymarq »

TheMadMick wrote: Wed Apr 28, 2021 9:36 pm
What I'm driving at, it why do you need a volume control if you have control in the source? Works for me.
Hadn’t thought of that. That might just be my new plan right there. Thanks

Geoff.R.G
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Re: New Adventures In HiFi

Unread post by Geoff.R.G »

Marqymarq wrote: Thu Apr 29, 2021 9:49 am
slinger wrote: Wed Apr 28, 2021 2:23 pm I've no reason for asking other than idle curiosity, but what is it about the AP10P's specs that make it unsuitable?
Would like a bit more power. Current amp is 25W which is fine, but I tend to operate in the upper half of the volume control.
There is nothing wrong with operating in the upper half of the volume control.

As you seem unhappy with this may I suggest that the problem may not be the amplifier's relatively low output. The maximum output level of an amplifier is determined by the input level the volume control merely varies the attenuation applied to the input. Thus, if your source has a relatively low output level you will need less attenuation (more volume) to achieve the desired listening level. A source with a high output level will need correspondingly more attenuation (less volume) for the same listening level.

Many modern source components have an output level around 2V, which to me is high because I am used to Hi-Fi sources that output between 100mV and 300mV, not very recent equipment. With high output sources (2V) a passive pre-amplifier is common because there is sufficient gain in the power amplifier to achieve the required listening level but passive pre-amps can't match the levels between sources. If you have a Radio Tuner with a lowish output and a CD player with a high output you will need to turn the volume up when listening to the radio. An active pre-amp would enable more gain to be applied to the radio input and, probably, attenuation to the CD input so that switching sources gives the same listening level. This may not seem important but when more people used tape recorders the output level to the recorder mattered.

Current power amplifiers have a relatively low input sensitivity, that means that they need a high input voltage to reach maximum output. There are modifications available to reduce the sensitivity of some vintage amplifiers to match modern source components. I have no experience of your source, you don't mention the amplifier you use but the Gale speakers are pretty ancient, thought I have no idea of their sensitivity.

Bearing in mind the foregoing, I would suggest that you don't really have a problem with amplifier power. If you can turn the volume up to uncomfortable levels you certainly don't have a problem. My suspicion is that your Raspberry Pi has a low audio output and that is what is shifting the volume control up the scale.
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Marqymarq (Thu Apr 29, 2021 12:18 pm)

Marqymarq
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Re: New Adventures In HiFi

Unread post by Marqymarq »

Thanks Geoff.R.G

Sorry I’ m conflating a few things and that’s confusing. I haven’t got the Raspberry Pi and Gale speaker set up going yet - this is why I’m searching for the amp. The 25W amp (Naim Atom) I refer to is in my main system driving Quad floor standers it’s my experience there that leads me to think 15W may not be enough. I need to check the spec of the Gale speakers though. Raspberry Pi through Dragonfly DAC outputs 1.5V
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Geoff.R.G (Thu Apr 29, 2021 11:44 am)

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Lindsayt
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Re: New Adventures In HiFi

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Marqymarq wrote: Thu Apr 29, 2021 10:03 am
Lindsayt wrote: Wed Apr 28, 2021 7:01 pm

I find it interesting when other people think that 15 watts isn't enough for their system.

My general response to the 15 watts not being enough is: is that the fault of the amplifier or of the speakers?

My thinking: I currently have 25W and tend to operate in the higher half of the volume control. My speaker SPL is 89dB and I listen 3.5M away from the speakers. With 15W the SPL at listening position is about 90dB. I’m thinking a little more headroom would be good - for when I want loud.
If you got speakers that are 97 dbs or more efficient (and a nominal 8 ohms) and you'll be able to get about 100 dbs at your listening position from your 15 watt amp.

That's loud enough to wake the dead from the church graveyard down the road.

There's also a good chance you'd have better quality music too. More alive. Less flat boring and unmusical.
That's assuming you'd be happy to have large to huge speakers or don't care about bass extension.

As TonyL from pfm puts it, small low efficiency speakers are not the sort of speakers you'd want to listen to at really high volumes anyway. Because they sound too shouty / distorted.
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Marqymarq (Thu Apr 29, 2021 12:18 pm)

Geoff.R.G
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Re: New Adventures In HiFi

Unread post by Geoff.R.G »

Marqymarq wrote: Thu Apr 29, 2021 11:28 am Thanks Geoff.R.G

Sorry I’ m conflating a few things and that’s confusing. I haven’t got the Raspberry Pi and Gale speaker set up going yet - this is why I’m searching for the amp. The 25W amp (Naim Atom) I refer to is in my main system driving Quad floor standers it’s my experience there that leads me to think 15W may not be enough. I need to check the spec of the Gale speakers though. Raspberry Pi through Dragonfly DAC outputs 1.5V
Thanks, you don't say which Quad speakers but the current S4 has a sensitivity of 88db/W which is pretty low and the recommended amp is 40-200W, they are also nominally 6Ω so you may be able to get more than 25W flat out from the amp. However, looking at the Naim Atom on line I get the Uniti Atom which is 40W. Either way I wouldn't worry unless you listen at very high levels. The Pi/DAC is in effect a pre-amp so you could happily just use a power amp instead of a single input "integrated*" amp.

*Integrated amps have a pre and power amp in the one case. A single input with a volume control hardly constitutes a pre-amp in my opinion but Paul can call it what he likes.
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Marqymarq (Thu Apr 29, 2021 12:18 pm)

Marqymarq
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Re: New Adventures In HiFi

Unread post by Marqymarq »

Geoff.R.G wrote: Thu Apr 29, 2021 11:58 am
Marqymarq wrote: Thu Apr 29, 2021 11:28 am The Pi/DAC is in effect a pre-amp so you could happily just use a power amp instead of a single input "integrated*" amp.
Think that’s the route I’m going to explore.

Thanks all - it’s an education. :clap:

Geoff.R.G
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Re: New Adventures In HiFi

Unread post by Geoff.R.G »

Marqymarq wrote: Thu Apr 29, 2021 12:17 pm
Geoff.R.G wrote: Thu Apr 29, 2021 11:58 am The Pi/DAC is in effect a pre-amp so you could happily just use a power amp instead of a single input "integrated*" amp.
Think that’s the route I’m going to explore.

Thanks all - it’s an education. :clap:
Have fun.

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Re: New Adventures In HiFi

Unread post by slinger »

Marqymarq wrote: Thu Apr 29, 2021 9:51 am
nilsatisnisioptimum wrote: Wed Apr 28, 2021 6:38 pm Fret is bottom right in the shorts, Savvy Paul is of course the guy in the pin stripped DB suit and me ~~~~~~~ well I think my bow tie and post lockdown haircut look rather good. I will leave it to readers imagination who Thing and cousin Itt are :shhh:
Y’all a bit weird :shock:
Oh, bugger! He's sussed, lads. Quick, put the human skins back on.
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Fretless (Thu Apr 29, 2021 2:03 pm) • Geoff.R.G (Thu Apr 29, 2021 6:53 pm)
Amps - NVA P50, AP30, A40, Stanislav Palo Tube Headphone Amp BB 85
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Digital - NAD C516BEE, SONY ST-SDB900 DAB TUNER, TEAC UD-H01 DAC
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Fretless
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Re: New Adventures In HiFi

Unread post by Fretless »

Do I have to?

Image
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slinger (Thu Apr 29, 2021 4:15 pm)
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Berty bass
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Re: New Adventures In HiFi

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savvypaul wrote: Wed Apr 28, 2021 1:35 pm So, we hope to have two new models released by the autumn .....a 70 watt 'super' integrated with dual mono circuitry and twin power supplies, an upgraded volume pot and a remote control option.
Oh balls, and there was me hoping to go a year without spending on my system after just commissioning a new bass guitar build! Damn you, SP, and your evil NVA empire!! :lol:
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savvypaul (Thu Apr 29, 2021 7:15 pm) • slinger (Thu Apr 29, 2021 8:30 pm)

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