Some random thoughts

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CycleCoach
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Re: Some random thoughts

Unread post by CycleCoach »

Is there anyone who posts on here who hasn't heard music played live?

Thought not.
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Re: Some random thoughts

Unread post by Geoff.R.G »

slinger wrote: Sun May 09, 2021 6:04 pm Where do live albums fit into your thinking, regarding your first point, Geoff?
Good question, if it was recorded from the desk, which takes some considerable skill I might add, then some of the processing that happens between the desk and the speakers will be lost. If additional mics are set up to record the performance it is likely to be closer to the concert experience. With modern digital desks the third alternative is to drop all the individual channels onto a hard drive and remix in the studio.

They will all sound different but the serarate mics for recording gets my vote, as long as it is done well.
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Re: Some random thoughts

Unread post by slinger »

I think the miked up solution wins out over soundboard albums because, apart from anything else, on a good recording you can "feel" the audience, which you don't get from a soundboard unless you've actually got extra mics set up to catch ambience. It's what lets a lot of soundboard bootlegs down to my mind. You get the bleed from the stage mics, but that's about it.
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Re: Some random thoughts

Unread post by Geoff.R.G »

slinger wrote: Sun May 09, 2021 8:43 pm I think the miked up solution wins out over soundboard albums because, apart from anything else, on a good recording you can "feel" the audience, which you don't get from a soundboard unless you've actually got extra mics set up to catch ambience. It's what lets a lot of soundboard bootlegs down to my mind. You get the bleed from the stage mics, but that's about it.
Pretty much sums it up, adding ambient mics to the main mix just for the purpose of the recording gets complicated. I have a tape of Harry Chapin at the Dominion Tottenham Court Road, the concert was broadcast by Capital Radio and I recorded it from the radio, using a timer, while I was in the audience. It captures the atmosphere well.

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Re: Some random thoughts

Unread post by NSNO2021 »

CycleCoach wrote: Sun May 09, 2021 6:31 pm Is there anyone who posts on here who hasn't heard music played live?

Thought not.
It's an oddity of our music oriented way of life that "live music" is often held up to the object of desire, with numerous marketing cliche's such as giving you the live experience. I can think of a number of venues where the acoustics are so bad enjoying the "live" experience is not really an option. Manchester's Albert Hall and Academy 1 are both dreadful and whilst Manchester's Apollo is fine I have witnessed more than one sound desk engineer ruin a set, one so bad I briefly argued with the guy. The legendary Eric's in Liverpool also had poor acoustics. I could go and on but you get my point, from a pure music point of view live music is often iffy but compensated for by the live experience.
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Re: Some random thoughts

Unread post by slinger »

Geoff.R.G wrote: Sun May 09, 2021 8:51 pm
slinger wrote: Sun May 09, 2021 8:43 pm I think the miked up solution wins out over soundboard albums because, apart from anything else, on a good recording you can "feel" the audience, which you don't get from a soundboard unless you've actually got extra mics set up to catch ambience. It's what lets a lot of soundboard bootlegs down to my mind. You get the bleed from the stage mics, but that's about it.
Pretty much sums it up, adding ambient mics to the main mix just for the purpose of the recording gets complicated. I have a tape of Harry Chapin at the Dominion Tottenham Court Road, the concert was broadcast by Capital Radio and I recorded it from the radio, using a timer, while I was in the audience. It captures the atmosphere well.
Harry's "Greatest Stories Live" is one of my favourite albums. Big John nails Mr Tanner on it.
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Re: Some random thoughts

Unread post by Geoff.R.G »

nilsatisnisioptimum wrote: Sun May 09, 2021 10:01 pm
CycleCoach wrote: Sun May 09, 2021 6:31 pm Is there anyone who posts on here who hasn't heard music played live?

Thought not.
It's an oddity of our music oriented way of life that "live music" is often held up to the object of desire, with numerous marketing cliche's such as giving you the live experience. I can think of a number of venues where the acoustics are so bad enjoying the "live" experience is not really an option. Manchester's Albert Hall and Academy 1 are both dreadful and whilst Manchester's Apollo is fine I have witnessed more than one sound desk engineer ruin a set, one so bad I briefly argued with the guy. The legendary Eric's in Liverpool also had poor acoustics. I could go and on but you get my point, from a pure music point of view live music is often iffy but compensated for by the live experience.
You are, unfortunately, correct on both counts. The former can be avoided by being selective on which venues you frequent but obviously that only works if the bands/orchestras you want to hear play the venues you like.

A few years back we were at a folk festival where the sound is, to say the least, variable. The best was for a singer called Ang Hardy, speaking to her sound man, and husband, after her set it turned out that he, like me, was involved in sound at their local church. Almost all the other acts were either too loud or gave too much prominence to lead vocals or both.

Congregations in churches want to hear the words so one soon learns how to get vocals right. Unfortunately I haven’t found a way to subdue aggressive use of cymbals.

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Re: Some random thoughts

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The sound at concerts has come on leaps and bounds since the 70s. I do find that it varies a lot within individual venues. If care is taken a good sound can be achieved.
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Re: Some random thoughts

Unread post by Geoff.R.G »

CN211276 wrote: Mon May 10, 2021 8:37 am The sound at concerts has come on leaps and bounds since the 70s. I do find that it varies a lot within individual venues. If care is taken a good sound can be achieved.
Have you ever heard Bellowhead live? It is all about how loud it can be, at festivals anyway, sounds great from 1/4 mile away.

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Re: Some random thoughts

Unread post by DaveyTed »

There seems to be a concensus that the "atmosphere" plays a great part in a live venue performance.
Perhaps the recording engineers could help recreate this by introducing random coughing, rustling crisp packets and mobile phone ring tones to add some realism.
Or should we just appreciate a good recording which was possibly the result of grafting together the best of multiple "takes".

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