Some random thoughts

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Geoff.R.G
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Some random thoughts

Unread post by Geoff.R.G »

Having commented on magic fuses and class D, amongst other things, here are some truly random thoughts.

1. What you hear at a concert, unless it is acoustic only, isn't Hi-Fi. Thus, when you play a recording by the band you aren't getting the "Live" experience you are getting a thoroughly processed version of what happened in the studio.

2. Class D is as Hi-Fi as any other amplification class, possibly excepting class C which is non-linear, depending on the application. Class D amps are used in PA and Live Sound systems, which is what you get at concerts, so a "from the desk" recording may have elements of Class D included. Doesn't matter what amp you use the artefacts are already there.

3. If you like the sound you can achieve by using signal processing, go for it, its all subjective anyway. Sometimes processing in live sound is essential and may be used in the studio. What harm can some more processing at home do?

4. Peter Walker's "The closest approach to the original sound" probably needs to be replaced by "the closest approach to the mastering engineer's intentions".

5. If you have never heard music live, how do you know whether what you hear at home bears any resemblance to the original?

6. Digital v Analogue is really a case of which compromises are you most comfortable with. Digital (CD) is good on dynamic range but compromised on frequency range. Analogue can be good on frequency range but limited in dynamic range. Does it matter if you can engage with the end result?

7. It doesn't matter what you spend on your Hi-Fi it is still only as good as your ears.

Grumpy Old Man? I don't think so, simply what I like to think of as being realistic. Don't get hung up on Hi-Fi, go to the pub, walk in the fields and listen to the birds, enjoy the sunshine.
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NSNO2021 (Sun May 09, 2021 3:21 pm) • CN211276 (Sun May 09, 2021 4:00 pm) • Gmanuk101 (Sat Jun 05, 2021 6:43 am)

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Re: Some random thoughts

Unread post by NSNO2021 »

Amen to all of that Geoff, my very best audio investment in the past 12 months of quite generous spending was having my ears cleaned by micro suction. £45 for my big old "jug lugs" to work at best they can
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Re: Some random thoughts

Unread post by Neonknight »

I wholeheartedly agree with the last point that does not have a number. This is a hobby and meant to be fun, and for us to enjoy music. It's not life and death, and no absolutes for right and wrong. A well crafted stereo system is a thing of beauty and brings us a great deal of pleasure, but very few of them are capable of creating an authentic reproduction of a live event of music. But they are our own personal time machines, taking us back to a time where an artist worked their craft to make something meaningful for us to enjoy. And that is it....for us to enjoy. So do that in your own way and we have the essence of what being an audiophile/hobbyist should be.

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Re: Some random thoughts

Unread post by Daniel Quinn »

What you have presented is a manifesto for stagnation .

The key element of life is dialectical materialism. Idea a and idea b collide giving birth to idea c. Is how we progress ,it is the very meaning of life wether it ideas of vaccines or hifi.

The process is the point. If you are arguing about hifi ,don't take it seriously but for heaven's sake argue
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CycleCoach (Sun May 09, 2021 5:56 pm)

Geoff.R.G
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Re: Some random thoughts

Unread post by Geoff.R.G »

Daniel Quinn wrote: Sun May 09, 2021 3:58 pm What you have presented is a manifesto for stagnation .

The key element of life is dialectical materialism. Idea a and idea b collide giving birth to idea c. Is how we progress ,it is the very meaning of life whether it ideas of vaccines or hifi.

The process is the point. If you are arguing about hifi ,don't take it seriously but for heaven's sake argue
Not at all DQ, what I am trying to do is to get people to realise that Hi-Fi is about music. Once you realise that almost all commercially recorded music is heavily processed you can begin to get a different perspective. With the recording industry as it is even the most expensive Hi-Fi can only hope to reproduce what the mastering engineer heard in his monitors. Older, pre digital in most cases, recordings are far less processed.

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Re: Some random thoughts

Unread post by CN211276 »

Geoff.R.G wrote: Sun May 09, 2021 1:24 pm Having commented on magic fuses and class D, amongst other things, here are some truly random thoughts.

1. What you hear at a concert, unless it is acoustic only, isn't Hi-Fi. Thus, when you play a recording by the band you aren't getting the "Live" experience you are getting a thoroughly processed version of what happened in the studio.

2. Class D is as Hi-Fi as any other amplification class, possibly excepting class C which is non-linear, depending on the application. Class D amps are used in PA and Live Sound systems, which is what you get at concerts, so a "from the desk" recording may have elements of Class D included. Doesn't matter what amp you use the artefacts are already there.

3. If you like the sound you can achieve by using signal processing, go for it, its all subjective anyway. Sometimes processing in live sound is essential and may be used in the studio. What harm can some more processing at home do?

4. Peter Walker's "The closest approach to the original sound" probably needs to be replaced by "the closest approach to the mastering engineer's intentions".

5. If you have never heard music live, how do you know whether what you hear at home bears any resemblance to the original?

6. Digital v Analogue is really a case of which compromises are you most comfortable with. Digital (CD) is good on dynamic range but compromised on frequency range. Analogue can be good on frequency range but limited in dynamic range. Does it matter if you can engage with the end result?

7. It doesn't matter what you spend on your Hi-Fi it is still only as good as your ears.

Grumpy Old Man? I don't think so, simply what I like to think of as being realistic. Don't get hung up on Hi-Fi, go to the pub, walk in the fields and listen to the birds, enjoy the sunshine.
Not much to take issue with here. I would add that many self appointed forum "experts" have never heard live music. Having said that live music and music through a hifi system are two different things. On a decent system the later should sound best. What can't be recreated, no matter how good or expensive, is the overall experience including the visuals, atmosphere and often a good stage show. I regulary attended concerts for 45 years before Covid and prefer a live event to listening at home, even with the volume up and lights dimmed. What is created in the recording studio and at the mixing desk narrows the gap. Good use of overdubs and multi tracking adds so much to what the musicians provide. This is not possible live.

I would accept 44kHz 24 Bit digital being compromised on frequency response and in other areas because IMO ultra sonic frequencies play an important role in our enjoyment of music. This is not the case any more with sample rates in excess of 700kHz. We can have the best of both worlds.

I have been walking the fields and enjoying the sunshine, when we have it, as there has been little else to do for over a year. Head phones drown out the birds. :character-beavisbutthead: Pubs in Wales reopen inside on the day I get my second jab. :guiness;
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Re: Some random thoughts

Unread post by Neonknight »

Geoff.R.G wrote: Sun May 09, 2021 4:12 pm
Daniel Quinn wrote: Sun May 09, 2021 3:58 pm What you have presented is a manifesto for stagnation .

The key element of life is dialectical materialism. Idea a and idea b collide giving birth to idea c. Is how we progress ,it is the very meaning of life whether it ideas of vaccines or hifi.

The process is the point. If you are arguing about hifi ,don't take it seriously but for heaven's sake argue
Not at all DQ, what I am trying to do is to get people to realise that Hi-Fi is about music. Once you realise that almost all commercially recorded music is heavily processed you can begin to get a different perspective. With the recording industry as it is even the most expensive Hi-Fi can only hope to reproduce what the mastering engineer heard in his monitors. Older, pre digital in most cases, recordings are far less processed.
I think most experiences hobbyists do get that point. If I am listening to releases by classic rock bands I know my AC/DC, Boston, or Van Halen is processed to the max. Now I listen to a lot of folk music, and buy from local artists when I can. Their stuff is far more raw and closer to what you hear in a venue. Heck some of the music is recorded at outdoor festivals, and that has a totally different presentation. Older Jazz and blues recordings have less processing also, same with classical in many cases. But ultimately an engineering and mastering techniques are involved, and the skill of that person determines the final outcome. I suspect certain recordings with a top of the line system could reproduce the illusion of a live performance, but you have to have the room for that kind of system set up too, and I sure don't. So I enjoy the music for what it is and for how well I can replay it, and call it good. Doesn't mean I don't want better, but when I look back to when I was younger I realize I got a stereo I could only dream of at that time. So I should be content, and for the most part I am and count my blessings.

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Re: Some random thoughts

Unread post by Neonknight »

Daniel Quinn wrote: Sun May 09, 2021 3:58 pm What you have presented is a manifesto for stagnation .

The key element of life is dialectical materialism. Idea a and idea b collide giving birth to idea c. Is how we progress ,it is the very meaning of life wether it ideas of vaccines or hifi.

The process is the point. If you are arguing about hifi ,don't take it seriously but for heaven's sake argue
I sometimes think about the rate of technological change and am amazed. I was reading the other day that one of the oldest burial sites of early man was found in Africa and looked to be 73,000 years old. Think of the rate of technological advancement from that time to say the 1800s. Now look at what has occurred from 1900 and forward. Thinking of what has occurred to allow for the exploration of Mars, and what it holds for the future is unbelievable when looking back 70,000 years. I wonder at times what it will be like to be alive 200 years from now, or 500 years. Honestly, I wish there would be a way to live in that time. Of course it could be a dystopian society by then, or we could have destroyed the planet, but at the same time it could be something else totally amazing. We live such short times, and sometimes I think self awareness can be a curse.

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Re: Some random thoughts

Unread post by CN211276 »

i am of the opinion that the technical advancement we have seen in recent centuries might not be new. As the evidence of human antiquity mounts I think it is possible, if not probable, that considerable advancement took place at times many millenia ago and was wiped out by cataclysems. We know there was one around 12,000 years ago when the ice age ended.
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Re: Some random thoughts

Unread post by slinger »

Where do live albums fit into your thinking, regarding your first point, Geoff?
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