The speakers you gave up for Cubes
- karatestu
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The speakers you gave up for Cubes
I was prompted to ask this after DQ mentioned his craving for panel speakers was squashed by Applemarc and Zebbo's preference for cubes over them.
I also know (I think) antonio ditched Shahinians for cube3's and Fret similarly with panel speakers.
I have respect for both omnidirectional speakers like the pseudo Shahinian speakers and panels like 57's etc so it must be really something for you to prefer Cubes.
So what was it that made the difference? My obsession with understanding speakers needs feeding
I also know (I think) antonio ditched Shahinians for cube3's and Fret similarly with panel speakers.
I have respect for both omnidirectional speakers like the pseudo Shahinian speakers and panels like 57's etc so it must be really something for you to prefer Cubes.
So what was it that made the difference? My obsession with understanding speakers needs feeding
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- CN211276
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Re: The speakers you gave up for Cubes
I was using Dynaudio Emit 10s before buying Cube 3s at a similar price. I already had NVA amps, cables and the BMU. NVA speakers came last because I was very sceptical about the design. Something inside me was saying that they could not possibly sound as good as a conventional design. They were instant keepers and I don't think I have been more wrong in my life! This was my biggest hifi wow experience. Sound stage is very important to me and the semiomnidirectional approach takes it to a different level to these ears. I think Cubes. (I had upgraded to 1s by then) could have been the major factor in splashing out on the Mscaler. It seriously enhances what Cubes do.
That said, I think the Dynaudios were a good conventional design, especially after hearing WAF speakers costing seven times as much.
That said, I think the Dynaudios were a good conventional design, especially after hearing WAF speakers costing seven times as much.
Main System
NVA BMU, P90SA/A80s (latest spec), Cube 1s, TIS, TISC(LS7)
Sonore OpticalRendu, Chord Mscaler & Qutest, Sbooster PSs
Network Acoustics Eno, ifi iPurifier3, AQ JB FMJ, Cisco 2940 & 2960
DH Labs ethernet, BNC & USB cables, Lindy cat 6 US ethernet cable
Second System
NVA P20/ A20, Cubettes, LS3, SSP, SC
Sonore MicroRendu, Chord Mojo 2 MCRU PSs, AQ Carbon USB cable & JB FMJ
Headphones
Grado SR325e/Chord Mojo, Beyerdynamic Avetho/AQ DF Colbat
RIP Doc
NVA BMU, P90SA/A80s (latest spec), Cube 1s, TIS, TISC(LS7)
Sonore OpticalRendu, Chord Mscaler & Qutest, Sbooster PSs
Network Acoustics Eno, ifi iPurifier3, AQ JB FMJ, Cisco 2940 & 2960
DH Labs ethernet, BNC & USB cables, Lindy cat 6 US ethernet cable
Second System
NVA P20/ A20, Cubettes, LS3, SSP, SC
Sonore MicroRendu, Chord Mojo 2 MCRU PSs, AQ Carbon USB cable & JB FMJ
Headphones
Grado SR325e/Chord Mojo, Beyerdynamic Avetho/AQ DF Colbat
RIP Doc
- Fretless
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Re: The speakers you gave up for Cubes
Mine were Magnepan's step-in MMG model, which had a dramatic 2D soundstage - a sort of sonic TV-screen with left-right, up-down placement of instruments. Detail from the ribbon tweeters was excellent.
What they missed was 'punch'. Bass was nice, especially on acoustic instruments, but the panels lacked conviction. I realised this when I swapped in a pair of Doc-mod Mission 760's, those little boxes kick!
Martin Logan use panels for top and mids but have a conventional bass-driver. Would like to hear some one day.
NVA Cubes have a specific magic that captivated me back in the 80's. Took me 30 years to get a pair, though.
What they missed was 'punch'. Bass was nice, especially on acoustic instruments, but the panels lacked conviction. I realised this when I swapped in a pair of Doc-mod Mission 760's, those little boxes kick!
Martin Logan use panels for top and mids but have a conventional bass-driver. Would like to hear some one day.
NVA Cubes have a specific magic that captivated me back in the 80's. Took me 30 years to get a pair, though.
Upstairs:
VinylPro-Ject 1.2 + Grado Sig Jr + Cambridge Alva Duo
DigiVolumio PC + Kiss DP-500 + Sabaj A20d
NVA: Cube2 - SSP - LS6+ Sabaj A10a {x2)
Little Bear MC2 + AQ NightHawk
Downstairs:
VinylLogic DM101 + Syrinx LE1 + Grado Sig MCX
DigiDenafrips Ares II + Volumio PC + Cambridge CXC
NVA: P50 & PSU - BMUAiyima A07 MAX + Arcam One
HP: Allo DigiOne + Sabaj A10d + AQ NightOwl
Office: Allo DigiOne SIG + SMSL M300se + Douk G4 (x2)
Mission 760 + Monolith 887 + German Maestro GMP 450
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Re: The speakers you gave up for Cubes
The most important aspect of the cubes for me was doping instead of a crossover.
This was a revelation in my speaker design . Nearly ten years now and dozens of speakers I have built and all of them have doped bass driver sans crossover.
The reason I have not gone for cubes is I was building my own speakers when I discovered cubes, I'm tight, I have a bay window and a very high ceiling.
This was a revelation in my speaker design . Nearly ten years now and dozens of speakers I have built and all of them have doped bass driver sans crossover.
The reason I have not gone for cubes is I was building my own speakers when I discovered cubes, I'm tight, I have a bay window and a very high ceiling.
- TheMadMick
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Re: The speakers you gave up for Cubes
I gotta say, I tried a pair of cubettes and wasn't impressed. Maybe it was the loose socket on the back or the badly filled crack on the casework but I gave them away.
Hey ho. Horses for courses.
Hey ho. Horses for courses.
Blusound Vault 2, P50SA, A80's, BMU, TIS, LS7, MA PL200, Meridian 506 (18 bit).
- karatestu
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Re: The speakers you gave up for Cubes
I think Savvy ditched Harbeths for Cubes ? Terry - was it linn isobariks or some such ?
Madmick- don't feel sad, many do not like the semi omni presentation.
I ditched a pair of B&W P4. Floor standing 2 way with 6.5" mid bass and 1" metal dome. They are a quarter wave folded tapered ljne affair (kind if transmission line). Crossover was a single iron cored series inductor on mid bass and a more complex third order on tweeter- two series caps with an air cored inductor to ground and in parallel to the driver from the junction of the two caps. Oh and a 1R5 padding resistor.
I bought some new, same finish as above for £650 in 1997. They stayed with me as my main speakers for 20 years and I will never part with them. They were ousted though by a craply built pair of sealed diy semi omni's with cuboid (not cube) dimensions visaton G25ffl and a doc doped 5 incher. That was the turning point.
I never had a problem with the mass loaded open ended transmission line, still don't but the tightness of the sealed approach won me over even though the bass was much less powerful and not as deep. I do take exception to a few other aspects of them though especially now after I have tinkered with speakers for four years.
Like DQ I don't like electrical xovers or any components between amp and drivers- don't like powered active xovers either but the simple addition of a tiny polystyrene capacitor at line level came to the rescue. I believe that ANY component degrades the music and that means padding resistors too, they add noise and have parasitic inductance and capacitance.
I don't seem to like metal dome tweeters either at the price level I am interested in. Fabric domes are to my ears superior and luckily Doc chose a very good and sanely priced one in the Visaton.
I also don't think I can live with point & squirt anymore. So if I were to mod the B&W P4's it would have to include doping the driver and pointing it upwards. Modding a transmission line is not that easy though. If I fire the driver upwards it is at the very end of the line rather than 20cm from the end and that apparently makes a difference with response peaks. Whether I would be able to hear the effect is another matter
The tweeter would also need to be visaton g20sc with a single series capacitor high pass filter, behind the up firing mid bass and probably several of them wired in series (to get rid of padding resistor) and pointing in different directions. Watch this space
I never had any major room issues with the 6.5" mid bass and TL loading. I did with big sealed 12 inchers however. Tk make them work in my small square room is going to take a lot of work.
Madmick- don't feel sad, many do not like the semi omni presentation.
I ditched a pair of B&W P4. Floor standing 2 way with 6.5" mid bass and 1" metal dome. They are a quarter wave folded tapered ljne affair (kind if transmission line). Crossover was a single iron cored series inductor on mid bass and a more complex third order on tweeter- two series caps with an air cored inductor to ground and in parallel to the driver from the junction of the two caps. Oh and a 1R5 padding resistor.
I bought some new, same finish as above for £650 in 1997. They stayed with me as my main speakers for 20 years and I will never part with them. They were ousted though by a craply built pair of sealed diy semi omni's with cuboid (not cube) dimensions visaton G25ffl and a doc doped 5 incher. That was the turning point.
I never had a problem with the mass loaded open ended transmission line, still don't but the tightness of the sealed approach won me over even though the bass was much less powerful and not as deep. I do take exception to a few other aspects of them though especially now after I have tinkered with speakers for four years.
Like DQ I don't like electrical xovers or any components between amp and drivers- don't like powered active xovers either but the simple addition of a tiny polystyrene capacitor at line level came to the rescue. I believe that ANY component degrades the music and that means padding resistors too, they add noise and have parasitic inductance and capacitance.
I don't seem to like metal dome tweeters either at the price level I am interested in. Fabric domes are to my ears superior and luckily Doc chose a very good and sanely priced one in the Visaton.
I also don't think I can live with point & squirt anymore. So if I were to mod the B&W P4's it would have to include doping the driver and pointing it upwards. Modding a transmission line is not that easy though. If I fire the driver upwards it is at the very end of the line rather than 20cm from the end and that apparently makes a difference with response peaks. Whether I would be able to hear the effect is another matter
The tweeter would also need to be visaton g20sc with a single series capacitor high pass filter, behind the up firing mid bass and probably several of them wired in series (to get rid of padding resistor) and pointing in different directions. Watch this space
I never had any major room issues with the 6.5" mid bass and TL loading. I did with big sealed 12 inchers however. Tk make them work in my small square room is going to take a lot of work.
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- CycleCoach
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Re: The speakers you gave up for Cubes
I retired a pair of Linn Isobariks (because kids) and had a few cheap Ebay speaker buys (including some Rogers LS4As) before the Cube 1s (bought from Zebbo: Thanks mate) and I can't imagine going back. The Isobariks did SOMETHING right, being pseudo-semi-omni, but the crossover is a shit-storm if you're looking for electrical simplicity!
I still have the 'Briks so maybe they'd be ideal for a bit of Doc-modding!?
I still have the 'Briks so maybe they'd be ideal for a bit of Doc-modding!?
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- karatestu (Sun Jul 11, 2021 12:48 pm)
I think I might be in the HiFi trade.
I am not currently seeking treatment for this.
Current System: Linn LP12 Lingo Ekos Troika, NVA PHONO2 with BBPSU, NVA AP20 (White), Quad ESL 57s &/or NVA Cube3s (White)
I am not currently seeking treatment for this.
Current System: Linn LP12 Lingo Ekos Troika, NVA PHONO2 with BBPSU, NVA AP20 (White), Quad ESL 57s &/or NVA Cube3s (White)
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Re: The speakers you gave up for Cubes
Go on. I'd love somebody to doc mod the bricks and it be a revelation .
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- CycleCoach (Sun Jul 11, 2021 1:06 pm)
- karatestu
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Re: The speakers you gave up for Cubes
Me tooDaniel Quinn wrote: ↑Sun Jul 11, 2021 12:24 pm Go on. I'd love somebody to doc mod the bricks and it be a revelation .
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- CycleCoach (Sun Jul 11, 2021 1:08 pm)
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- CycleCoach
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Re: The speakers you gave up for Cubes
I'm tempted..Daniel Quinn wrote: ↑Sun Jul 11, 2021 12:24 pm Go on. I'd love somebody to doc mod the bricks and it be a revelation .
I think I might be in the HiFi trade.
I am not currently seeking treatment for this.
Current System: Linn LP12 Lingo Ekos Troika, NVA PHONO2 with BBPSU, NVA AP20 (White), Quad ESL 57s &/or NVA Cube3s (White)
I am not currently seeking treatment for this.
Current System: Linn LP12 Lingo Ekos Troika, NVA PHONO2 with BBPSU, NVA AP20 (White), Quad ESL 57s &/or NVA Cube3s (White)