Turn up the treble

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karatestu
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Turn up the treble

Unread post by karatestu »

No please don't, too much treble annoys the feck out of me. I can't relax and within a few songs I have a headache and then Mrs Kara feels sad :cry:

I think it is popular for manufacturers to dial the treble up. It gives a false sense of extra detail and you need to impress in the dem0 room against the contenders. Get it home and a little way down the track it starts to annoy you to the point of yet another box swap :roll: For that reason you need to be on the ball - don't fall the plinky plonky ramped up treble and always have the long term in mind. To the uninitiated, extended home demo (online 30 days selling regs give ample time for this) is the only way.

The recording is king. I do think with some of them that the person mastering it was on drugs, deaf or both. My speakers are not treble heavy at all, in fact they are the other way if anything. can't be doing with it - I suspect I have some hearing damage that makes me more easily annoyed than most.

At the other extreme we have stuff such as Fleetwood Mac Dreams which is so polite that I wish I could draw a very big smiley phase with the faders on an EQ unit :lol: It's a shame cos there is no doubt it is excellent music. If I wanted polite I would spend all my time in elevators or sit at home with my Harbeth speakers :grin: and a keen eye on the lovely flat graphs that get posted on other forums.
DIY inspired by Richard "The Doc" Dunn RIP

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SteveTheShadow
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Re: Turn up the treble

Unread post by SteveTheShadow »

I can’t stand excessive treble. The fact that I use single driver speakers might give a clue :lol:
Makes me laugh when people say to me that my designs could do with a bit more ‘sparkle’ up top.
If someone aged from 55-70 years wants their treble to sparkle, then it’s wishful thinking, and they are on a hiding to nothing.
I used to be able to hear the 15KHz tone cut into the side 2 run-out groove of the original Beatles, Sgt Pepper LP…er not any more. In those days when I could hear that tone, the treble did indeed sparkle, now it doesn’t and no amount of eq or high efficiency tweetery is going to bring the sparkle back. All eq’ ing the treble does now, is to make things unbearably tinny and headache inducing, due to the upper mid lower treble emphasis that results. Nasty.

These days by necessity, I live in the midrange and because of that, I’ve been on a quest to get the very best midband quality it is possible to get, for the money I’m prepared to spend on hi-fi. I now appreciate the midband more than I’ve ever done previously. I’ve also discovered that getting the midband right in terms of the speakers/amp interaction, is an absolute b’stard. But when you finally get it right……… :dance:
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karatestu (Sat Oct 16, 2021 7:49 pm) • antonio66 (Mon Oct 18, 2021 3:31 am)
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Re: Turn up the treble

Unread post by slinger »

Nothing wrong with a bit of treble. ;)

This is my favourite track from one of my favourite guitarists, Sten Webb. It affected my early guitar sound no end and has been the cause, over the years, of many band members screaming at me to turn my "fucking treble down". Nah. Sometimes you need to shred an audience to pieces with high-velocity musical razor blades. :lol:

I've been in love with this track for over 50 years.

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karatestu (Sat Oct 16, 2021 8:22 pm)
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karatestu
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Re: Turn up the treble

Unread post by karatestu »

SteveTheShadow wrote: Sat Oct 16, 2021 7:17 pm I can’t stand excessive treble. The fact that I use single driver speakers might give a clue :lol:
Makes me laugh when people say to me that my designs could do with a bit more ‘sparkle’ up top.
If someone aged from 55-70 years wants their treble to sparkle, then it’s wishful thinking, and they are on a hiding to nothing.
I used to be able to hear the 15KHz tone cut into the side 2 run-out groove of the original Beatles, Sgt Pepper LP…er not any more. In those days when I could hear that tone, the treble did indeed sparkle, now it doesn’t and no amount of eq or high efficiency tweetery is going to bring the sparkle back. All eq’ ing the treble does now, is to make things unbearably tinny and headache inducing, due to the upper mid lower treble emphasis that results. Nasty.

These days by necessity, I live in the midrange and because of that, I’ve been on a quest to get the very best midband quality it is possible to get, for the money I’m prepared to spend on hi-fi. I now appreciate the midband more than I’ve ever done previously. I’ve also discovered that getting the midband right in terms of the speakers/amp interaction, is an absolute b’stard. But when you finally get it right……… :dance:
I think your hearing tops out at 10 kHz ? Is that right ? I'm not far behind- 13k and I'm done :cry: Too many years of drumming in bands, heavy machinery and not caring. I'm regretting it now of course. Also I have this annoying balance problem where every system I listen to is louder from the left channel and it drives me nuts. I put it down to 2 stroke machinery where the engine us always on the right.

Anyways, the only people you have to please Steve are yourself and your wife. Fook everybody else. Is not one of the advantages of diy that you can design and build a speaker that is perfect for you. Don't waste your time trying to please everyone at Owston, they don't matter one bit. I mean that in the most sincere way. Having read your metronome thread on diyaudio I have nothing but thd upmost respect for you as a dryer.

Might see you at Owston but don't worry I won't be bringing anything apart from the urge to get pissed with a room full of old blokes with beards, Noel Edmonds jumpers and who smell of piss (only joking). I can't pass up the opportunity to meet Paul and Tomasz if they are going. Feel free to ignore me, most people do.

There should be a rebellion against over bright systems. Although saying that many of us had Naim gear at one time 9d another or still do. I bought some 2.5" full rangers (cough) recently. I admit to being nervous about what they will sound like - the response goes skyward after 15 k on axis but jot going able to hear that high I am unsure what the outcome will be.

Al the best Steve. You seem to be the only one brave enough to reply to my ramblings at the moment. Can you hear the echo ?
DIY inspired by Richard "The Doc" Dunn RIP

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karatestu
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Re: Turn up the treble

Unread post by karatestu »

slinger wrote: Sat Oct 16, 2021 7:49 pm Nothing wrong with a bit of treble. ;)

This is my favourite track from one of my favourite guitarists, Sten Webb. It affected my early guitar sound no end and has been the cause, over the years, of many band members screaming at me to turn my "fucking treble down". Nah. Sometimes you need to shred an audience to pieces with high-velocity musical razor blades. :lol:

I've been in love with this track for over 50 years.

Yeah but add a treble fest recording to a speaker that is that way inclined and what do you get ?
DIY inspired by Richard "The Doc" Dunn RIP

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Re: Turn up the treble

Unread post by SteveTheShadow »

karatestu wrote: Sat Oct 16, 2021 8:17 pm
I think your hearing tops out at 10 kHz ? Is that right ? I'm not far behind- 13k and I'm done :cry:
Actually it has improved slightly and I can now get to 12KHz.
It was an attack of Bell’s Palsy five years ago that wrecked my hearing. It was months before I could even listen to the system. The top end of my hearing suffered from a hideous flutter echo effect combined with a phasiness that was intolerable on sibilants and loud cymbal work. It also made it difficult for me to understand what people were saying. The audiologist said I had a 50/50 chance that it would get back to some semblance of normality but it would take a few years. She wasn’t wrong. The phasiness and flutter echoes took six weeks to disappear but the top end has taken a lot longer to reappear. 12KHz is probably about the best I can expect under the circumstances.

The Metronomes are the things I am most proud of. Scott Lindgren and Dave Dlugos helped me develop them into a range of larger cabinets that would take a wide range of drivers. I’m amazed how many people have built them.
There should be a rebellion against over bright systems….
I’m certainly with you there, but given the age of some of the speaker designers out there and the ages of the punters listening in the dem rooms, it’s little wonder that brightness is prevalent in the speaker world.
Molly Winley, she smooks loike a chimley, but she’s my little nicotine gal.

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Re: Turn up the treble

Unread post by Lindsayt »

I find excessive sibilance annoying. It makes too many vocalists sound like they have ill fitting dentures.

I also don't like it when well recorded cymbals are turned into Danish bacon adverts.

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Re: Turn up the treble

Unread post by Geoff.R.G »

All I want to say is, there is a huge difference between a good parametric equaliser and a simple treble control.

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Re: Turn up the treble

Unread post by CN211276 »

Over powering treble can be the result of kit needing time to run in. This was the case with a pair of Beyerdynamic headphones I bought last year. They were initially very bright with recessed bass and fatiguing over time, but because of all the positive comments I had read I was going to stick it out before making a decision about returning. They gradually settled down and I am very pleased with the purchase. Had it not been for Covid it is likely that I would have auditioned them in a store, instead of buying on line, and rejected them.
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Re: Turn up the treble

Unread post by savvypaul »

I like my porridge just right. I like clarity and separation but not distortion. If I need to choose, then the sin of ommission is usually preferable to very obvious treble. That said, a little sparkle in the high treble won't usually hurt, it's usually problems in the upper mid / lower treble that cause me the most displeasure when I hear 'mainstream' speakers at dealers
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