HELP NEEDED to digitise two LP's

All music posts here please.
Grumpytim
Posts: 527
Joined: Fri May 19, 2017 11:03 am
Has thanked: 354 times
Been thanked: 330 times
Columbia

Re: HELP NEEDED to digitise two LP's

Unread post by Grumpytim »

The odd reality for me is that even though I 'know' that my 96/24 recording of Black Sabbath's Paranoid cannot be as good as the 96/24 I got from Qobuz, I prefer mine every time. Maybe my ears aren't digital enough.

Geoff.R.G
Posts: 1562
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2016 2:46 pm
Location: Denham UK
Has thanked: 132 times
Been thanked: 476 times
Great Britain

Re: HELP NEEDED to digitise two LP's

Unread post by Geoff.R.G »

CycleCoach wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 10:38 am Once the signal leaves the dac it's analogue again, and our amp and speakers treat it just like any other signal.
So my question is then, is there a number of "dots" (I prefer to think of them as "slices") needed before that information being fed to the amp is indistinguishable from analogue?
If you believe the inventors of CD 44.1KHz is sufficient, but we know that this isn't the case. Whether you can detect what is lost depends on your hearing. For many years 96KHz was the norm for digital mixers but Dante extends that to 192KHz, is that enough? I don't know but I doubt the industry would be investing in Dante equipment if it didn't make a difference
CycleCoach wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 10:38 amOr is there a fundamental difference in the nature of the sound which means it will never be as good/be the same?
My guess is that if the slices are thin enough, (dots close enough together,) then we won't know the difference. But that's a guess.
Also. What about records cut from a digital master? Do they sound worse than all analogue? Do they still sound better than a FLAC file or the like?
DQ made some interesting comments on the Genesis re-masters recently. Maybe the answer is that the processing/mastering process is critical to the finished sound, and that makes the most difference?
The problem with remastering is that you can't replace what has been lost so the remastered version will never be any better than the original from which it is created no matter what the sampling rate of bit depth. The idea that a high enough sampling rate will eventually be indistinguishable from the original isn't new but what that sampling rate might be is an excellent question, for which I have no answer.

User avatar
CN211276
Posts: 6522
Joined: Tue Aug 09, 2016 9:29 am
Location: Cardiff
Has thanked: 1401 times
Been thanked: 976 times
EUROPEAN_UNION

Re: HELP NEEDED to digitise two LP's

Unread post by CN211276 »

Geoff.R.G wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 10:37 am Interestingly, the higher the sampling rate of a digital conversion the closer the output wave form becomes to analogue,
+1
These users thanked the author CN211276 for the post:
CycleCoach (Wed Apr 21, 2021 12:25 pm)
Main System
NVA BMU, P90SA/A80s (latest spec), Cube 1s, TIS, TISC(LS7)
Sonore OpticalRendu, Chord Mscaler & Qutest, Sbooster PSs
Network Acoustics Eno, ifi iPurifier3, AQ JB FMJ, Cisco 2940 & 2960
DH Labs ethernet, BNC & USB cables, Farnells cat 8 ethernet cable

Second System
NVA P20/ A20, Cubettes, LS3, SSP, SC
Sonore MicroRendu, Chord Mojo 2 MCRU PSs, AQ Carbon USB cable & JB FMJ

Headphones
Grado SR325e/Chord Mojo, Beyerdynamic Avetho/AQ DF Colbat

RIP Doc

User avatar
CN211276
Posts: 6522
Joined: Tue Aug 09, 2016 9:29 am
Location: Cardiff
Has thanked: 1401 times
Been thanked: 976 times
EUROPEAN_UNION

Re: HELP NEEDED to digitise two LP's

Unread post by CN211276 »

Like many I thought the days of vinyl were numbered when CD came on the scene. I started buying CDs instead of vinyl from early 1986 when I bought my first CD player. To my ears CD did provide a cleaner more precise sound but something was lacking. As has been mentioned in this thread I think emotion is the most apropriate word coupled with an increased sense of space and warmth.

The effects of digital are not just confined to play back. In the early 80s I bought vinyl wfhich was both recorded on analogue tape and digitally. They sounded a lot different even if it was the same band. The digitally recorded vinyl has a sense of clinical coldness while analogue albums have warmth and more emotion. The most striking example I found was the Rainbow albums "Difficult to cure" and the digitally recorded follow up "Straight between the eyes". A couple of years ago I went on a guided tour of the Rock n Roll Museum in Dublin where there was an analogue recording studio with equipment used by Thin Lizzy. The guide said that many bands were not happy about recording with digital and stayed with analogue because its warmth and pleasing effect on the ear. I was allowed to handle an analogue master tape and was struck by its size thickness and weight.

Digital has made huge strides in recent years and the biggest I believe is increased Bit and sample rates. 44kHz is inadequate and to my ears quadrupeling makes a huge difference. The Mscaler was expensive, but after hearing it in my system I could not be without it. It is like having the benefits of analogue and digital combined.
These users thanked the author CN211276 for the post (total 2):
CycleCoach (Wed Apr 21, 2021 12:25 pm) • Fretless (Wed Apr 21, 2021 12:49 pm)
Main System
NVA BMU, P90SA/A80s (latest spec), Cube 1s, TIS, TISC(LS7)
Sonore OpticalRendu, Chord Mscaler & Qutest, Sbooster PSs
Network Acoustics Eno, ifi iPurifier3, AQ JB FMJ, Cisco 2940 & 2960
DH Labs ethernet, BNC & USB cables, Farnells cat 8 ethernet cable

Second System
NVA P20/ A20, Cubettes, LS3, SSP, SC
Sonore MicroRendu, Chord Mojo 2 MCRU PSs, AQ Carbon USB cable & JB FMJ

Headphones
Grado SR325e/Chord Mojo, Beyerdynamic Avetho/AQ DF Colbat

RIP Doc

Geoff.R.G
Posts: 1562
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2016 2:46 pm
Location: Denham UK
Has thanked: 132 times
Been thanked: 476 times
Great Britain

Re: HELP NEEDED to digitise two LP's

Unread post by Geoff.R.G »

CN211276 wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 12:00 pm A couple of years ago I went on a guided tour of the Rock n Roll Museum in Dublin where there was an analogue recording studio with equipment used by Thin Lizzy. The guide said that many bands were not happy about recording with digital and stayed with analogue because its warmth and pleasing effect on the ear. I was allowed to handle an analogue master tape and was struck by its size thickness and weight.
It is surprising isn't it? Even a 10.5" reel of 1/2" tape would do some damage if dropped on your foot. A reel of 2" tape would be somewhat heavier.

User avatar
Fretless
Posts: 9290
Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2014 12:15 pm
Location: Somewhere in Holland
Has thanked: 1487 times
Been thanked: 2280 times
Netherlands

Re: HELP NEEDED to digitise two LP's

Unread post by Fretless »

I see that Roland have updated the UA25EX USB audio Interface with a new model called the Rubix 24.

Image

This does 192KHz / 24bit recording. As does it's slightly more simplified version the Rubix 22:

Image

Looks like it has everything I need for vinyl rips.
Only €150....

.... Hmmmm .... :think:

Upstairs:
Vinyl
Pro-Ject 1.2 + Grado Sig Jr + Cambridge Alva Duo
DigiVolumio PC + Kiss DP-500 + Sabaj A20d
NVA: P50sa - Cube2 - SSP - LS6+ Sabaj A10a (x2)
Downstairs:
Vinyl
Logic DM101 + Syrinx LE1 + Grado Sig MCX
DigiDenafrips Ares II + Volumio PC + Cambridge CXC
NVA: P50 - BMU+ Aiyima A07 MAX (x2) + Arcam One
HP: HifiBerry Digi+ PRO + Sabaj A10d
Office:
Allo DigiOne SIG + SMSL M300se + Douk G4 (x2)
Mission 760 + Monolith THX AAA 887
Headphones: German Maestro, Monolith & AQ

User avatar
CN211276
Posts: 6522
Joined: Tue Aug 09, 2016 9:29 am
Location: Cardiff
Has thanked: 1401 times
Been thanked: 976 times
EUROPEAN_UNION

Re: HELP NEEDED to digitise two LP's

Unread post by CN211276 »

I have found a big leap from 96kHz to 192kHz whereas I struggle to hear a difference between 44kHz 16 Bit and 96kHz 24 Bit.
Main System
NVA BMU, P90SA/A80s (latest spec), Cube 1s, TIS, TISC(LS7)
Sonore OpticalRendu, Chord Mscaler & Qutest, Sbooster PSs
Network Acoustics Eno, ifi iPurifier3, AQ JB FMJ, Cisco 2940 & 2960
DH Labs ethernet, BNC & USB cables, Farnells cat 8 ethernet cable

Second System
NVA P20/ A20, Cubettes, LS3, SSP, SC
Sonore MicroRendu, Chord Mojo 2 MCRU PSs, AQ Carbon USB cable & JB FMJ

Headphones
Grado SR325e/Chord Mojo, Beyerdynamic Avetho/AQ DF Colbat

RIP Doc

User avatar
Fretless
Posts: 9290
Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2014 12:15 pm
Location: Somewhere in Holland
Has thanked: 1487 times
Been thanked: 2280 times
Netherlands

Re: HELP NEEDED to digitise two LP's

Unread post by Fretless »

Deep sigh.

More hmmmmm .... :grin:




I think that before I go for 192KHz that firstly a different cartridge needs to be tried in the Debut2, and I am already considering upgrading that to a Pro-Ject X1.

Image

Upstairs:
Vinyl
Pro-Ject 1.2 + Grado Sig Jr + Cambridge Alva Duo
DigiVolumio PC + Kiss DP-500 + Sabaj A20d
NVA: P50sa - Cube2 - SSP - LS6+ Sabaj A10a (x2)
Downstairs:
Vinyl
Logic DM101 + Syrinx LE1 + Grado Sig MCX
DigiDenafrips Ares II + Volumio PC + Cambridge CXC
NVA: P50 - BMU+ Aiyima A07 MAX (x2) + Arcam One
HP: HifiBerry Digi+ PRO + Sabaj A10d
Office:
Allo DigiOne SIG + SMSL M300se + Douk G4 (x2)
Mission 760 + Monolith THX AAA 887
Headphones: German Maestro, Monolith & AQ

Grumpytim
Posts: 527
Joined: Fri May 19, 2017 11:03 am
Has thanked: 354 times
Been thanked: 330 times
Columbia

Re: HELP NEEDED to digitise two LP's

Unread post by Grumpytim »

And thereby hangs the tail - how much do you need to upgrade the 'data retrieval device' to fully realise the benefits of 192khz. A rhetorical question I know, along with other hifi greats such as how much is too much?

User avatar
Fretless
Posts: 9290
Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2014 12:15 pm
Location: Somewhere in Holland
Has thanked: 1487 times
Been thanked: 2280 times
Netherlands

Re: HELP NEEDED to digitise two LP's

Unread post by Fretless »

I know that my installations are all comfortable with 96KHz, but 192 asks a lot from smaller processors like the Pi2B and also the network must be able to handle the data transmission rate.

Upstairs:
Vinyl
Pro-Ject 1.2 + Grado Sig Jr + Cambridge Alva Duo
DigiVolumio PC + Kiss DP-500 + Sabaj A20d
NVA: P50sa - Cube2 - SSP - LS6+ Sabaj A10a (x2)
Downstairs:
Vinyl
Logic DM101 + Syrinx LE1 + Grado Sig MCX
DigiDenafrips Ares II + Volumio PC + Cambridge CXC
NVA: P50 - BMU+ Aiyima A07 MAX (x2) + Arcam One
HP: HifiBerry Digi+ PRO + Sabaj A10d
Office:
Allo DigiOne SIG + SMSL M300se + Douk G4 (x2)
Mission 760 + Monolith THX AAA 887
Headphones: German Maestro, Monolith & AQ

Post Reply