Taking the piss out of politics

[CN211276]

When MP's get into boxing matches, they now have to abide by the Amesbury Rules.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cjd3nr4rr5lo

[slinger]

I think i heard on the radio that he is still getting paid as an MP whilst in prison.

[CN211276]

Trump and Vance are a prime example of what can happen when personal friendship is put above doing the right thing.

It's looking like they will go down in history as almost as big a villain as Putin.

Zelensky was extremely naive or ill advised. Reading the autobiography of anyone that's previously worked with Trump would have told him all he needed to know. Trump is not a neuro-typical human being.
He should have been licking Trump's arse for years. Saying what a beautiful wonderful man Trump is.
He should have become a Trump Gang member.
If he had done that, Trump would not have come out with the complete bullshit that Ukraine started the war. Nor that Zelensky is a dictator.

By being honest and speaking with integrity, it's looking like Zelensky is precipitating the end of the war in unfavourable terms to the country of Ukraine.

Zelensky may go down in history as the victim. The real tragedy is all the people that lost their lives - for what's looking like it will turn out to be nothing. Or if not nothing, not enough. History isn't fair. Just look what happened to Poland in the 20th century.

Maybe we as people outside America should become part of a big movement saying we will love Trump if the war ends in terms favourable to Ukraine? And hate him if it's more favourable to Russia. It probably won't change anything, but at least we can console ourselves that we did the right thing.

[CN211276]

It is difficult to see how Zelensky could have handled it better as Trump is an admirer of Putin. Trump would also like to be a dictator as his attempt to over turn the 2020 election shows. If the US constitution separated executive and judicial powers, as is the case in the UK, Trump would be behind bars where he belongs. The world is in a dangerous situation similar to the 1930s and I am glad I am not young. I can see Putin achieving his initial aim of conquering Ukraine with his next target being the Baltic States.

[slinger]

Performative bullying. Trump was playing to his fanbase, and his (and Vance's) actions were pre-scripted. They wanted to back Volodymyr Zelenskyy into a corner where he was forced to capitulate, and Trump looked like the big tough guy, which would have played into his obscene narcissism.

Sadly (for the bullies) it seems that nobody thought to give Volodymyr Zelenskyy a copy of the script, and the whole rest of the world got a glimpse of the "real" Trump, and the majority of them don't appear to like it much.

[Lindsayt]

The first casualty of war is the truth.

Zelensky failed to appreciate that Ukraine is at war with Putin, Russia, Belarus, Iran, North Korea AND Donald Trump's ego.

He made a big mistake by appearing - in Donald Trump's mind - to support Biden and Harris in the 2024 US Presidential election.
Which he has compounded by not licking Trumps arse and failing to call Trump a beautiful wonderful man.

Zelensky may well think that Trump is a narcissistic psycho. But that's besides the point. He should have put the interests of his country above honesty and integrity.

He should have bowed down to all Trump's demands, such as mining concessions, in order to get the best end of war deal he could.
Knowing full well that he or his successor could easily come up with some trumped up excuse to renege on the deal. Or simply quietly stop honouring the deal.
An easy cop out excuse would be "I was under duress, people were dying, and it was the only way to deal with Trump's ego."

That's diplomacy. Especially when you're at war. You've gotta be willing to lie to get the best outcome.

There will be additional suffering for the people of Ukraine because Zelensky acted with too much honesty and integrity.

[TheRealAleman]

An intriguing analysis has been circulating online regarding the psychological aspects of Zelensky’s meeting with Trump and Vance, conducted using ChatGPT.

From this analysis, it becomes evident that we have witnessed a true masterclass in gaslighting, manipulation, and coercion on the part of Trump and his entourage. Let’s break down the key points:

1. Blaming the victim for their own situation

Trump explicitly tells Zelensky: “You have allowed yourself to be in a very bad position.” This is classic abuser rhetoric—blaming the victim for their suffering. The implication is that Ukraine itself is responsible for being occupied by Russia and for the deaths of its people.

2. Pressure and coercion into ‘gratitude’

Vance demands that Zelensky say “thank you.” This is an extremely toxic tactic—forcing the victim to express gratitude for the help they desperately need, only to later accuse them of ingratitude if they attempt to assert their rights.

3. Manipulating the concept of ‘peace’

Trump claims that Zelensky is “not ready for peace.” However, what he actually means is Ukraine’s capitulation. This is a classic manipulation technique—substituting the idea of a just peace with the notion of surrender.

4. Refusing to acknowledge the reality of war

Trump repeatedly insists that Zelensky has “no cards to play” and that “without us, you have nothing.” This is yet another abusive tactic—undermining the victim’s efforts by asserting that they are powerless without the mercy of their ‘saviour.’

5. Devaluing the victims of war

“If you get a ceasefire, you must accept it so that bullets stop flying and your people stop dying,” Trump says. Yet, he ignores the fact that a ceasefire without guarantees is merely an opportunity for Russia to regroup and strike again.

6. Dominance tactics

Trump constantly interrupts Zelensky, cutting him off: “No, no, you’ve already said enough,” and “You’re not in a position to dictate to us.” This is deliberate psychological pressure designed to establish a hierarchy in which Zelensky is the subordinate.

7. Forcing capitulation under the guise of ‘diplomacy’

Vance asserts that “the path to peace lies through diplomacy.” This is a classic strategy where the aggressor is given the opportunity to continue their aggression unchallenged.

8. Projection and distortion of reality

Trump declares: “You are playing with the lives of millions of people.” Yet, in reality, it is he who is doing exactly that—shifting responsibility onto Zelensky.

9. Creating the illusion that Ukraine ‘owes’ the US

Yes, the US is assisting Ukraine, but presenting this aid as “you must obey, or you will receive nothing” is not a partnership—it is financial and military coercion.

10. Undermining Ukraine’s resistance

Trump states that “if it weren’t for our weapons, this war would have ended in two weeks.” This is an attempt to erase Ukraine’s achievements and portray its efforts as entirely dependent on US support.

Conclusion

Trump and his team employed the full spectrum of abusive tactics: gaslighting, victim-blaming, coercion into gratitude, and manipulation of the concepts of peace and diplomacy. This was not a negotiation—it was an attempt to force Zelensky into accepting terms beneficial to the US but potentially fatal for Ukraine.

[TheRealAleman]

I know the thread is entitled "Taking the piss out of politics", but since Nov 5th I have been forced to realise that politics is actually taking the piss out of itself!!

It took the NAZI party 53 days to dismantle a constitutional republic... Beware the ides of March!!

[CN211276]

This is one of those that's hilarious and tragic at the same.

Hilarious at how a man with such a "my gang, your gang" mentality and a man that is such a compulsive liar and exaggerator has been voted to become the most powerful man in the world.

Tragic for the consequences to the people of Ukraine.
We'll have to see how his policies pan out for the general economy of the world and for America.

It will be interesting to see if Trump relinquishes power in three and three quarters years time.

Sometimes with some things in life you have to laugh, or you'd cry.

Trump is a prime example of a politician where taking the piss out of him is a better course to maintaining one's sanity than taking him seriously.

He has the integrity of a sand castle when the tide comes in.
He has the listening skills of a fruit fly.
He's as truthful as a puppet from a Disney film with a 500 mile long nose...

[CN211276]

You have to laugh or cry. The most powerful man in the world is a gangster who should be behind bars and pals with the biggest threat to world peace since Hitler.