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valvesRus wrote: ↑Mon Nov 22, 2021 2:22 pm

Geoff.R.G wrote: ↑Mon Nov 22, 2021 12:10 pm

valvesRus wrote: ↑Mon Nov 22, 2021 12:55 am

I believe the Chiltern line was upgraded not that many years ago, and that some people prefer that route to Birmingham.

Having seen a cab ride video of the line after upgrading, and also videos of the upgrading work itself, the line is not really suitable for high speed, although the scenery might be better.

If you are prepared to accept that high speed isn't necessary all that is required is greater capacity.

Well, higher speeds would give more capacity, or we need new lines.

HS2 gives both.

The UK topography and population density is not really conducive to new lines, which is why HS2 is creating the problems it is.

Think back to when railways began in the UK, an how our landscape was scarred by myriad railway projects spurred on by railway mania. George Hudson may have been a con man but we were left with a rail network to be proud of.

If only BR and Beeching had mothballed more lines rather than instant demolition.

How much faster do the lines need to be? With a little lateral thinking you can run express and stopping services without the need for a completely new line, just some additional track to allow passing.

Mothballing of lines would not have served Beeching's purpose which was to shift traffic to roads to benefit road haulage. A line that has been demolished isn't easily reopened, a mothballed one is. Even so a good number of the Beeching cuts could be restored if the will was there. It might mean demolishing a few housing estates where they are built across the former track beds but in many cases the line has become a footpath.

Geoff.R.G wrote: ↑Mon Nov 22, 2021 6:58 pm

Mothballing of lines would not have served Beeching's purpose which was to shift traffic to roads to benefit road haulage.

A common misapprehension.

Beeching just did what he was asked to do by Ernest Marples, who was minister of transport at the time.

His (Marples) business was Marples Ridgeway, a civil engineering contractor that built roads. Talk about a conflict of interest.

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valvesRus wrote: ↑Mon Nov 22, 2021 7:14 pm

Geoff.R.G wrote: ↑Mon Nov 22, 2021 6:58 pm

Mothballing of lines would not have served Beeching's purpose which was to shift traffic to roads to benefit road haulage.

A common misapprehension.

Beeching just did what he was asked to do by Ernest Marples, who was minister of transport at the time.

His (Marples) business was Marples Ridgeway, a civil engineering contractor that built roads. Talk about a conflict of interest.

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Quite right, Beeching was Marples.’ fall guy. I always thought that somebody didn’t understand that branch lines fed the mainlines until I learned that the whole idea was to “encourage” the use of road transport. They are both long gone so can’t be asked to explain themselves.

If I remember correctly, Marples had to bugger off overseas a bit pronto to avoid getting "done" for tax fraud later in his life.

slinger wrote: ↑Mon Nov 22, 2021 11:44 pm If I remember correctly, Marples had to bugger off overseas a bit pronto to avoid getting "done" for tax fraud later in his life.

plus ca change....

Will the Birmingham to Manchester leg of this project be getting scrapped soon ? I don't watch or listen to the news at all (for my own mental health reasons - i would rather be uninformed than misinformed) but a cartoon from private eye popped up on my Facebook feed.

Looks like Sunak is testing the public mood on HS2 in the hope that a postponement would free up money for some pre-election tax cuts. Desperate stuff.

The rumours were true then, its cancelled. Government has more leaks than a sieve these days. Costs are out of control.

Andy Burnham had it right. If they'd started it in the North there's no way the London leg would have got cancelled.