Dutch Elections

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Fretless
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Re: Dutch Elections

Unread post by Fretless »

Don't worry about me - I have a Dutch passport and the immigration rules here forced me to renounce my British nationality.

Wilders has more problems with Dilan Yesilgoz, leader of the centre-right VVD (Rutte's party). She was born in Turkey and does have a double nationality. Her party is essential to Wilders if he wants to form a cabinet. Also Pieter Omzigt (NSC) has strong moral objections to Wilders' plans and he is also vital to any proposed government coalition.

There are going to be big problems in the formation of a workable coalition here and it is by no means certain that Geert Wilders will be able to become Prime Minister without him making enormous concessions and moderating his extremist standpoints.
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Re: Dutch Elections

Unread post by TheRealAleman »

Fretless wrote: Thu Nov 23, 2023 10:05 amThere are going to be big problems in the formation of a workable coalition here and it is by no means certain that Geert Wilders will be able to become Prime Minister without him making enormous concessions and moderating his extremist standpoints.
That there is the main reason why PR is so much better than FPTP! Yes you might get more "nutters", or should I say members with more radical views, in parliament, but they have to work together to to form a working government. Yes, it may take a long time, but that means that dangerous hands are kept off the various ministries that really keep the country running!
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Re: Dutch Elections

Unread post by Fretless »

Day one of discussions about the formation of a new cabinet.

Dilan Yesilgoz (VVD) has said that she will not take part under Wilders' leadership, but is willing to be a 'support partner' to a minority government.

This is a clever move as it is what Wilders did 10 years ago to a cabinet of Mark Rutte. When Wilders withdrew his support for that government after a year, the cabinet fell and new elections were needed.

A minority government is also a way to rein-in Wilders excesses as he must then seek the agreement of other parties to push his legislation through. Meaning more negotiation and concession. One odd thing about his PVV party is that it isn't actually a democratic party at all but a 'one-man' group (Wilders himself) who is assisted by others. This makes him, effectively, a dictator within his own party with total responsibility for all decisions taken. He is not used to sharing power and having to negotiate with others to achieve his goals.

However things are only just beginning and lines are already being drawn in the sand.

:epopc:
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Re: Dutch Elections

Unread post by slinger »

Apparently, Geert Wilders is sponsored by far-right conservative millionaire lobbyists David Horowitz & Robert Shillman.

They also sponsor racists, conspiracy theorists, and far-right loons like Project Veritas, Rebel News, Tommy Robinson & Katie Hopkins.
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Re: Dutch Elections

Unread post by Fretless »

There were rumours years ago that Wilders had strong Israeli and Mossad connections.

He was friendly with Nigel Farrage too, for a while
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Re: Dutch Elections

Unread post by Fretless »

The circus is up and running. The designated 'pathfinder' to lead the first round of coalition talks is a member of Geert Wilders PVV party who is active in the Dutch senate. Unfortunately for him, a newspaper published an article this weekend that he was involved in a fraud/corruption investigation about a company he ran from 2000-2009.

Gom van Strien (yes, that's his name) has just announced that he is no longer able to carry out the Pathfinder function and has stepped out of the post. Leaving the talks, which hadn't even started, in total chaos.

"Here we go round the mulberry bush ..."

:banana-tux:
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Re: Dutch Elections

Unread post by TheRealAleman »

Fretless wrote: Mon Nov 27, 2023 10:30 am "Here we go round the mulberry bush ..."

:banana-tux:
:lol: :lol: :lol:

That I think is one of the real issues with politicians today, although it was obvious in the past, modern politicians go into politics as a "what's in it for me?" approach, rather than the "what can I do for the country/people?" one. There was a great time from around the 1st world war to about 1980 where a great deal was done for the UK and its population, but since then ... I can probably count on the fingers of one hand the number of UK politicians who have not been in it for "Me! Me! Me!"
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Re: Dutch Elections

Unread post by Fretless »

Image


Dutch politics - always complex and sometimes absurd.

A quick summary:

Results of the november 2023 election have left the following parties as the most likely to be in a Centre-Right coalition government under Geert Wilders (seats in brackets)

PVV (37)
VVD (24)
NSC (20)
BBB (7)

This combination has 88 seats - more than enough for a majority (needs 76).

But ...

Geert Wilders (PVV) has announced that he is willing to drop the more controversial (read: illegal) points from his election programme. He is desperate to become PM and will probably do almost anything to achieve that.

Dilan Yesilgoz (VVD) stated that she will not be in a cabinet under Wilders - but is taking a lot of flak from her own party, many of whom want her to be actively involved in the next government.

Pieter Omtzigt (NSC) who came out of nowhere with a new liberal party. He is now the main player in the coalition and is demanding that Wilders first comes with a list of the points that he intends to drop from his manifesto. After which the NSC will begin talks. Omtzigt is a very moral character who intends for a new cabinet to behave in a 'proper' fashion, reflecting the interests of the country as a whole.

Caroline van der Plas (BBB), a down-to-earth lady representing the interests of the farming and rural community. She is the only one who unquestioningly supports Wilders and just wants to take part in the cabinet with him.

Things have got off to a rough start with new Pathfinder, ex-minister Ronald Plasterk, stuck in the middle of an increasingly-murkier situation. Next week it is the intention that the coalition talks should begin in earnest. Won't be easy as the major players are all jockeying for position and aiming to get the best deal for themselves out of the formation.

There is also a suspicion that Wilders is 'playing nice' with the appearance of willingness, in order to get to be PM - after which he will return to form and try to drive the cabinet towards his extremist views. At that point it is likely that Omtzigt will drop out and a new election will be needed.


The other two main left-wing players on the sidelines are Frans Timmermans from the combined Labour / Green Left group and Rob Jetten of liberals D66. Should it prove impossible to form a government with Wilders then the reponsibility will go to Timmermans with 25 seats. He will then also need the cooperation of VVD, NSC and D66 for a majority.
However this is a dangerous move because of the dissatisfied masses who voted for Wilders - they could start a wave of public protest.

Clear as mud? Thought so.

:whistle:

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Re: Dutch Elections

Unread post by slinger »

Great picture, but surely that's Harry Enfield playing Swiss Toni from The Fast Show.
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Re: Dutch Elections

Unread post by Fretless »

Now you mention it .... :think:
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