prog rock

[Dr Bunsen Honeydew]

Rocky - That was UK he is N American.

[slinger]

I don't know where you were in the late sixties and early seventies but I remember buying, listening to, and discussing Progressive Rock.

You are going to have to give me some proof about this.

Let's get something straightened out here, I'm going to have to give you sweet f.a. Apart from anything else It's a stupid demand because it's patently impossible to meet. It's also rather rude to approach someone with an attitude such as that. You were not one of my circle of friends in those (or any other) days. Your ability to dispute my memories is therefore non-existent.

I believe you'll find the term Progressive Rock was first used to describe a radio format, in The United States, in the late sixties.

The Crazy World of Arthur Brown, Family, Caravan, Jethro Tull, The Nice, The Pretty Things, Soft Machine...all released albums in 1968, all of whom I'd consider as Progressive Rock bands. At the other extreme don't forget that Pink Floyd L.P.s came with the helpful note "File under POPULAR : Pop Groups" on the back. It's pointless arguing about it, I remember what I remember, you read what you read, and never the twain shall meet it seems.

[Mississippi Blind Child Assburn]

No need to get nasty.

You may be correct on this...I'm just wondering if you have written proof - maybe even something written on ticket stubs.(People DO hold on to those.)

I do not need your memories and I did not ask for them. Scour the internet - find me something.

If its not worth the bother...well then, no big deal.


....

Oh, I did find that lp in my collection. Turns out its called "Golden POP" with narry a mention of the word "progressive" (like I thought there might be.) Its a sampler lp from '68 of Deram bands (half of which -Move, Procol Harem,Moody Blues - would later on become prog). Decca put out their "exptal" offshoot label ,Deram and this was the sampler.

Im pretty sure there was another sampler put out later which was called something like "The Progressive World of Deram". Likely that is where they first used the word on a UK lp. (It also , as I recall, had a beautiful coverart.)

[Mississippi Blind Child Assburn]

As to the bands you mention being prog:
First Procol Harem lp is an absolute KILLER lp - one of my top ten faves of all time - but its not prog. Its baroque-rock.
Pretty Things, of course, never were prog.
Family, I never considered prog, but peeps seem to. (I somehow always confuse this band with Audience)
The Crazy World Of Arthur Brown is PROTOprog; at best half the lp. You have covers of James Brown & Screaming Jay Hawkins there.

[Mississippi Blind Child Assburn]

We come to Caravan:

the sleeve notes on the first lp say the all-important words "progressive rock".

The issue date of the first Caravan lp is October 1968.

Does this prove anything?

NO!

1:
"Progressive" is being used AS A DESCRIPTOR; an adjective. WHAT IS IMPORTANT TO REALIZE IN ALL THIS IS THAT A DESCRIPTOR DOES NOT COUNT. (They could have just as easily used the words 'ground-breaking" or "advancing" or "alternate" - as, for example, Squire used.) For instance, we have the term "progressive jazz" used in -what? - the 50s?
WHAT COUNTS IS "PROGRESSIVE" THOUGHT OF IN THE SENSE OF A MOVEMENT, A CLEARLY-DEFINED GENRE.

2:
Most everyone agrees that the first prog lp is "Court of Crimson king". This was released for first time , OCTOBER 1969. This means that , discounting the last 2 and a half months, you CANNOT SAY anything other than Crimson was prog BEFORE JAN 1970.

Now, if you entertain the certainty that the first Caravan is indeed (not the harbinger but) the TEMPLATE for the GENRE,Prog (or artrock), then that is your take. But I would have to disagree.


Other contenders for beating out "Court of the Crimson King" IN THE UK would be these - but all arguments & supports in my opinion have holes ready-made punched into them:

NIRVANA - STORY OF SIMON SIMEOPATH ( I'm sure i spelt this in correctly) Released FEB 1968!

MOODY BLUES - IN SEARCH OF THE LOST CHORD JULY '68 (note that "Days of Future Passed" cannot be called prog since its just pop songs alternating with classical)

PINK FLOYD - SAUCERFUL OF SECRETS (psych) JULY '68

CARAVAN -SAME OCT '68

NICE - ARS LONGA,VITA BREVIS OCT '68

SOFT MACHINE - 1 OCT '68


VAN DER GRAFF GENERATOR - AEROSOL GREY MACHINE JAN '69


PROCOL HARUM - SHINE ON BRIGHTLY FEB '69

DEEP PURPLE - BOOK OF TALYSIN JUNE '69

KING CRIMSON - OCT 69

[Mississippi Blind Child Assburn]

I must correct myself:

I said, "discounting the last 2 and a half months, you CANNOT SAY anything other than Crimson was prog BEFORE JAN 1970."

In those two and a half months there WERE 4 lps that you could & probably should consider prog: Arzachel -same, Moody Blues-To Our Children's Children's Children,Renaissance - same and Rare Bird.

[joe]

All the same people for crying out loud drop the Rock bit..

I don't know where you were in the late sixties and early seventies

Nowhere; he wasn't even born! All this 'not really prog' stuff is hilarious. I don't think anyone actually alive and buying music at the time was that precious about it.

[Lurcher300b]

Dont forget the Small Faces, everyone forgets the Small Faces.

[terrybooth]

In the UK, so far as I remember, 'Progressive' was a movement (like Surrlealism and Dadaism in pictorial art), rather than a specific musical genre in the late 60s. It was generally defined by what it was moving away from not what it was converging on - hence the diversity and disagreement over it IMHO. To some extent it had a rather British trait that it included only 'English' music - so all of the influences that came from the East - the Indian subcontinent in particular - were dubbed 'Psychedelic'. It definitely wasn't Soul (ref: 'Do you like Soul music' 'No' 'Well do the trouser press, baby' - Bonzo Dog Doo Dah Band and another link to surrealism). And it wasn't 2 minute pop singles or the balladeers and crooners (Matt Monroe, Englebert Humperdinck, Long John Baldry) who were around at the time and took up a good deal of the singles charts. It wasn't the annual rerelease of 'White Christmas' getting into the top 10. It was a time when LPs outsold Singles (and the Sound of Music soundtrack seemed never to be out of the charts - but that wasn't Progressive either). But what it was, no one agree on then.

[joe]

Nik Cohn, in his 1969 book Awopbopaloobop Alopbamboom, refers to 'progressive pop' (in somewhat disdainful terms) and lumps such groups as Pink Floyd, Traffic, Family and the Moody Blues in the UK, and the Grateful Dead, Iron Butterfly and Jefferson Airplane in the US, into the same broad category.