Another stupid question - passive pre related system build

[Andrew]

I tend to take specs with a mountain of salt because experience has confounded specs almost every time. I can give a few examples:

Epos ES14s are reasonably sensitive with no crossover to speak of and no huge impedance dips as far as I know. They are ruthless with many amps n my xperience. They need something beefy to sing.

Neat Petites are almost identical in their behaviour too, despite being pretty innocuous on specs.

Rega Elas 88db sensitivity. Simple gentle crossover and supposedly easy load. Useless with low power valves and most integrateds but fine with NVA AP20.

Spica TC50. 83-84db sensitivity. Nominal 4 ohms impedance, dropping to well below 3 ohms in places. 5th order crossover. Happily driven by anything and they seem to go loud too. Even my "optimistically" rated 12 watt SET amp is mighty with them.

The more I try stuff, the more I think specs are a waste of time in practice more times than they are useful.

[Dr Bunsen Honeydew]

Shipping the sort of thing you are talking about is £40 to £50 if booked from the UK to France, if using UPS booked through Interparcel. I tell you what if you want to return them I will pay the return carriage for you as long as you review them on AoS just for the fun of it and to piss them off. Which ever way they come out for you.

Russian Roulette

[Dr Bunsen Honeydew]

It is simple Andrew, specs = lies.

[CageyH-FX1200]

Specs are useful as a guide only, but auditioning is certainly best.

It's a tempting offer Doc. By the way, the plugs you sent me arrived today.
I can't tell the difference between them and the Neutrik Rean plugs I have fitted to the same type of cable.

[Dr Bunsen Honeydew]

And you know how much they cost, about a quid each

I hope you tell them this on AoS

[CageyH-FX1200]

I have - here

[_D_S_J_R_]

It is simple Andrew, specs = lies.

No, I'm going to disagree. If the specs are properly explained and the tester knows what to look at.

Andrew, ES14's had a heavy cone and of used the way Robin latterly set them up for - with bungs IN, they have little bass energy below 70hz or so. The later driver with 'phase plug' had 2db less sensitivity in the mid compared to the earlier version and will sound gutless with a typical low cost amp like a cheap Arcam or similar. The added 'excitement' of vintage Naims is purely odd order and crossover distortion, coupled with the band limiting and awful connecting cables which are un-shielded - all easily measured.

Ela's are also strange. The cabinet arrangement means that bass goes out of phase below again, around 80Hz. I couldn't live with a pair at home at all - all I could notice was that ghastly spitty tweeter in my small room - they work much better in large spaces.

I do feel these days that amp differences are based more around how they clip as anything else. the original Naim Nait sounded far louder than it should and this was purely because it soft-clipped like a compressor, the dynamic range being progressively squashed as the volume control went up.

[Andrew]

I've had a few ES14s and I found the earlier ones to be far more picky about amplification. The were utterly ruthless with anything weedy or thin.

It was my first experience of magazine bullshit and dealer ignorance. Mags matched it with the Exposure X which simply wouldn't get much above background levels with mine. Whilst still not ideal, my Myst Tma3 walked all over the X with Epos.

My dealer flogged me a Preamp 2 and P170 which also failed to drive the Epos in spite of high power specs.

Exposure 6,7,8 were good and so was 62/hi cap/140. The only other integrated that seemed to manage was the Onix OA21.

[Oldpinkman]

Those myst were great amps. We used them at pt in the early days when Mike and Mary were often at the factory. Cant understand why they didn't do better.

[Dr Bunsen Honeydew]

It is simple Andrew, specs = lies.

No, I'm going to disagree. If the specs are properly explained and the tester knows what to look at.

Andrew, ES14's had a heavy cone and of used the way Robin latterly set them up for - with bungs IN, they have little bass energy below 70hz or so. The later driver with 'phase plug' had 2db less sensitivity in the mid compared to the earlier version and will sound gutless with a typical low cost amp like a cheap Arcam or similar. The added 'excitement' of vintage Naims is purely odd order and crossover distortion, coupled with the band limiting and awful connecting cables which are un-shielded - all easily measured.

Ela's are also strange. The cabinet arrangement means that bass goes out of phase below again, around 80Hz. I couldn't live with a pair at home at all - all I could notice was that ghastly spitty tweeter in my small room - they work much better in large spaces.

I do feel these days that amp differences are based more around how they clip as anything else. the original Naim Nait sounded far louder than it should and this was purely because it soft-clipped like a compressor, the dynamic range being progressively squashed as the volume control went up.

So your first sentence says specs don't lie, and then write paragraphs to prove they do