Anyone else. . . .

[Dr Bunsen Honeydew]

Zebbo - It depends if they are allowed into the EU. If they vote for independence then they are automatically out of the EU and have to apply for membership, which will take months if not years. Now any existing member can veto their membership. I very much doubt the remaining of the UK will do that but there is a very good chance Spain will as they are scared stiff of their own separatist movements with Catalans and Basques, and will see the Scotland thing as encouraging them.

If Scotland is refused entry to the EU they will go bankrupt and the only alliance available to them is with Norway. No currency no market apart from whisky sales to the US and Far East. The oil companies would run a mile, the North Sea would shut down unless they went into partnership with Norway.

Personally I have got to the point I really don't care what they do, I am just fed up with all the posturing and bullshit. I see it as some sort of post Walter Scott-ian romanticism that is an emotional decision that has no founding in logic or reality - completely pointless and self destructive process. AND IMO it will be most destructive for the Scottish people - FFS more of them live here in England than in Scotland for a start, do they get a vote - NO!

[Dr Bunsen Honeydew]

As far as i am concerned the independence that would work is for London and the South East to declare independence and tell the rest of the UK to Fff off. It would be one of the richest per capita nations on the earth rivalling Switzerland. But obviously it wont happen and nor should it.

I am not a little englander, I would never vote UKIP or conservative come to that. Normally I don't vote at all because it just encourages them *IF* the time and circumstances came together I would be fully in favour of us being in the Euro and part of a European federal state. But it is generations off as you cannot force people to change, they have to want to. What we need is to create consensus and bed in what we have already got, they tried to move it on too quickly, and now it is finger in the dyke time to try and hold it together. The EU and the Euro at the moment is a disaster created by romanticists who think they know best and think eternal peace in Europe and some sort of Democratic Socialist utopia is possible. Romanticism is the art, reality is the science, and the Scots will discover this very quickly as well, reality has a propensity to come up behind and bite yer bum.

[Macca]

I view it differently. The current problems with the EU were entirely predictable and therefore intentional. It's a perfect excuse to introduce draconian legislation and eliminate democracy by the back door. A federal Europe is not the intention, a communist superstate is what they are after. Don't forget that a lot of the European leaders were Communists in their youth, even Merkel, until they realised that would never get them elected. I am not a little Englander either and I don't vote for precisely the reason given i.e it just encourages them. What we need is more devolution not convolution into a super-state.

As for the Jocks once they have had their referendum on whether to go it on their own will we get one on whether we should cut them loose? No, thought not

[Dr Bunsen Honeydew]

Everything follows the "cock up" theory in reality

Coined by Bernard Ingham, is the saying "cock-up before conspiracy", deriving from this 1985 quotation:
"Many journalists have fallen for the conspiracy theory of government. I do assure you that they would produce more accurate work if they adhered to the cock-up theory."

[Daniel Quinn]

I view it differently. The current problems with the EU were entirely predictable and therefore intentional. It's a perfect excuse to introduce draconian legislation and eliminate democracy by the back door. A federal Europe is not the intention, a communist superstate is what they are after. Don't forget that a lot of the European leaders were Communists in their youth, even Merkel, until they realised that would never get them elected. I am not a little Englander either and I don't vote for precisely the reason given i.e it just encourages them. What we need is more devolution not convolution into a super-state.

As for the Jocks once they have had their referendum on whether to go it on their own will we get one on whether we should cut them loose? No, thought not

Ahem, much of this unsubstantiated scare mongering - whose intention is a communist super state ? And as a matter of logic, predictability does not equate to intentionality . What draconian legislation is trying to be passed ? Have you been reading Littlejohn ?

[Dr Bunsen Honeydew]

A communist super state, I think not. Democratic Socialism is the modern buzz theory.

I tell you if you look at the political demography and how it is changing in Europe you would be more likely to have a fascist super state if it was up to the people. The move to the right (not so much politically but more emotionally out of frustration) is tangible across Europe.

[Macca]

Well there are two 'Rights' in reality - Right wing as in racist and/or nationalist and right wing as in libertarian/small government. I'm the latter.

Fascism was the former of the two and is really more national socialism but co-opting big business into the deal to make it work. It is possible to be a socialist and a nationalist. The BNP is a socialist party but is also described in the media as 'extreme right-wing'. Essentially it is just Newspeak - the meaning of the word has been twisted. (see also: 'Marriage').

Anyway national socialism is to me is more the direction things are headed in Europe. Look how well that worked out last time. The UK by virtue of geography and history is always going to be nationalistic to an extent but we don't have the same outlook on life as the continentals do because of that. However it is interesting how English people who are nationalistic are derided as Little Englanders and seen as bad people but Scottish nationalists are to be so admired they get a referendum.

[Dr Bunsen Honeydew]

I think a lot of people think like you now Macca it seems to be a trend.

I suppose I am an internationalist because I find cultural difference fascinating and definitely find certain culture far preferable to our own. My fav at the moment is Italian, they may turn politics almost into a sport, but their lifestyle suits me perfectly. I also prefer French and Spanish to ours.

I love Chinese cultural history but it was not a country to live in and is still very hard with a hardworking life, I am lazy I like the Dolche Vita

I suppose a nice balance with UK type culture is Oz, I would live there. The thing I don't like about Brits is we are so up our own arses including me

[Macca]

It seems a lot of people don't think like me. If they did we wouldn't be in shit state right now.

I could happily live in another culture especially if it was somewhere warm. Never been to Oz it is just too far but there are parts of the USA I could live in quite happily. Or ideally the Caribbean or the Bahamas. I've always preferred foreign food to British stodge as well - fish and chips excepted of course.

[nerica19]

Ok, so not exactly been out on the bike - but at least I got it out of the shed and took it for an MOT...

And I thought as we've had German and British, we might as well have some Japanese bike representation too.