Pinky's Funky Rambling's....!!!

[Macca]

I ". I take it that meant Marco agreed it was shiite. Whatever my faults Jammy, I don't devote my life to conning people into buying a TT which I consider poor, so that I can steer them through an expensive upgrade path buying the kit for the real deal from my mate with the mains cables... :

I actually had this argument with Marco on Aos a while back now (don't ask me to find the thread as there are hundreds on the Technics) and he agreed that the stock deck was good performer. Now what I consider audiophile quality and what someone who has spent 20 times (or more) than I have on their system consider as audiophile quality are always going to be different. Even I would say that you need to replace the stock headshell (or at least the connector wires as DSJR suggests) and the mat in order to get things sounding 'good'. After that you can pick and choose upgrades as you desire, and if you do upgrade the deck that doesn't automatically mean you didn't like how it sounded to begin with.

And I would return to the post I made earlier re the alternatives. What has the strengths of the SL1200 without the weaknesses and can be bought for £250 used? Answer - nothing. I could go out and buy a brand new Gyrodec tomorrow and not lose any sleep over the cost but I know that I would lose some of the strengths that I have with the Technics and so it is swapping one compromise for another, less palatable (to me) one. And a Gyrodedc is about the only deck I would consider swapping to at the level at which I would be comfortable spending on a turntable. For those on an even more limited budget the (true) choice is tiny/ non existent.

'Dull' - well one man's dull is another man's 'neutral'. Frankly with the music some people seem to like they probably need an 'exciting' sounding deck to stay awake but for me it is for the music to be exciting not the turntable If you want 'character' in your hi-fi do it at the speaker end where it at least makes some sense.

It is a deck you can buy cheaply used, it sounds good relatively stock with some great strengths you will not get elsewhere at the price plus *if you want to* you have the option of dozens of tweaks and upgrades, many inexpensive, that can raise its game some more. I don't see any downside to that.

[Dr Bunsen Honeydew]

I ". I take it that meant Marco agreed it was shiite. Whatever my faults Jammy, I don't devote my life to conning people into buying a TT which I consider poor, so that I can steer them through an expensive upgrade path buying the kit for the real deal from my mate with the mains cables... :

And I would return to the post I made earlier re the alternatives. What has the strengths of the SL1200 without the weaknesses and can be bought for £250 used? Answer - nothing.

There are lots, mostly Japanese and direct drives. The Goldring / Lenco L75 rim drive should also be added to this. IMO the best value of the bunch is the Pioneer PL71, which I have done comparisons with stock 1210, totally pissed on it, upgraded one but not to Marco's manic level of expenditure, and PL71 was better but a lot closer. To the point that I can accept a Marco level one being better, BUT my PL71 cost me £55 about 7 years ago, and can still be bought for under £250.

[Macca]

I ". I take it that meant Marco agreed it was shiite. Whatever my faults Jammy, I don't devote my life to conning people into buying a TT which I consider poor, so that I can steer them through an expensive upgrade path buying the kit for the real deal from my mate with the mains cables... :

And I would return to the post I made earlier re the alternatives. What has the strengths of the SL1200 without the weaknesses and can be bought for £250 used? Answer - nothing.

There are lots, all Japanese and all direct drives. IMO the best value of the bunch is the Pioneer PL71, which I have done comparisons with stock 1210, totally pissed on it, upgraded one but not to Marco's manic level of expenditure, and PL71 was better but a lot closer. To the point that I can accept a Marco level one being better, BUT my PL71 cost me £55 about 7 years ago, and can still be bought for under £250.

Fair point but availability is the issue. If you want a used SL1200 there are always dozens on eBay or they can be found in Crack Convertors and the like, not usually true of the PL71 or the Trios, Denons etc. That was why I was comparing with what TTs can be bought new for less than big money ('big' is to me more than, say, £1500).

[Dr Bunsen Honeydew]

Sorry don't accept that. I just did a search at ebay removing Technics and they are all direct drive but the Lenco http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/Home-Audio-Hi ... &_udhi=300

There are some real bargain gems in this lot that I would prefer to a 1210.

[Andrew]

I'd not thank you for a 1210 or a Gyro.The way forums and mags are these days, it's getting like the LP12 bullshit where you can only have one or two decks if you are to get a good sound. Even this thread has started to become a technics shrine like you can find on AoS. Then you get the usual "Gyro is the only credible alternative" viewpoint.

There's a plethora of turntables out there that compete with (and to my ears walk all over) both of these. I've no problem with people liking either of them, but I do get pissed off when debate tends to limit choice to them alone.

[_D_S_J_R_]

What's the noise about the Gyro about? Bloody swimmy sounding thing with a vague sort of quality (and I have heard a few in my time). The Orbe certainly I can vibe with, but not the Gyro for whatever reason...

[_D_S_J_R_]

Someone with a Formula 4 needs to snap this up -

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TRIO-KENWOOD- ... 4d1a54b606

This combo worked a treat with something like a Sonus Blue or ADC. A massier arm may tip the sound into stodge, but the Mayware didn't!

[Macca]

Sorry don't accept that. I just did a search at ebay removing Technics and they are all direct drive but the Lenco http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/Home-Audio-Hi ... &_udhi=300

There are some real bargain gems in this lot that I would prefer to a 1210.

Nothing that exciting except this Marantz linear tracker that I am actually quite tempted by:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Marantz-TT525 ... 2ecfa75c36

Does anyone know if replacement styli or cartridges are available?

Incidentally I think my psot above is being taken a bit literally - I was simply saying that for me the choice is limited as if I was buying new I would rule out Rega and Project entirely. Plus there may be decks I have never heard of. Anway I was talking personally - I'm not instructing anyone else what to buy and what not to buy.

[Oldpinkman]

Ok - what alternatives? For finish and aesthetics and ergonomics - very tough. If the criteria is enjoying the music, there are some. It depends a bit how much you buy into this Direct drive fetish. To believe Marco's mantra you would think a turntable like the anniversary warbles about all over the shop. If I were looking at competing with the £1200 NOS price then there is a f... I can think of. And a £300 2nd hand price, probably the Systemdek / Mission 774 I have out in the stables - the one I picked up to get my Technics U205 I had been scouring the planet for. It's a nice little unit. I would probably change the mat - but otherwise its OK. In both cases I think the reason will be the arm. The Technics arm is OK for an ordinary unit, but nothing remotely special. Changing arms on this deck has as much effect as on any other deck, and as I noted on AOS I think arms maybe are more influential than the motor unit. Marco stepped in to put me straight, and get me back on the Linn chip philosophy of motor unit first, but I hadn't made the comment out of thin air. I prefaced it by noting I had spent a lot of time swapping the motor units under arms (PT, LSD, SL1200) under an F5. I think the Mission 774 is a very good arm, punching comfortably above its weight, and significantly better than the stock Technics arm.

It is an ugly pile of mechano to go putting on a sleek well-engineered unit like the SL1200, and I haven't tried it, but I suspect it would lift the performance significantly, and that is why I prefer the systemdeck in the stable to the SL1200 - to listen to.

Dull in this context means a bit muffled and losing detail. Not the opposite of shrill brash or "exciting". It is relative to what you have experienced - what I have experienced I should say. To recap - I had a Pink Triangle with Mission 774 arm and Goldring cartridge 1042, which felt left out with nothing broken, so the arm dropped a channel (I already had a noisy 405 needing repair, and a Pip which only worked if you rested a paperweight on the signal leads at the back). I asked AK for advice on rewiring and he offered to do it. I got down there with the TT and he was too busy and asked me to leave it with him. I didn't want to wait 4 years before I next listened to a record so insisted on taking a hostage, and he gave me an SL1200 - with his 1042 but my stylus. It was my birthday the next week, and Sue bought me the reissue Selling England by the pound. I only listened to it once on the Technics. I probably only listened to 5 hours of records, during the 3 weeks I was waiting for my PT. It just wasn't involving enough. It wasn't bad. It was, as everyone notes, rock steady. It wasn't coloured or false, it just missed too much detail - the "live atmosphere" I am used to. But an Anni with a mission 774 would probably retail for £4000 today, so unless you take the view that the Technics is effectively as good as it can ever get, it would be surprising if it didn't sound very different.

[Andrew]

What's the noise about the Gyro about? Bloody swimmy sounding thing with a vague sort of quality (and I have heard a few in my time). The Orbe certainly I can vibe with, but not the Gyro for whatever reason...

Thank God I'm not alone! Utter utter shiiiiite turntable IMO

Bloody Noël "crinkly bottom" Keywood has spouted on endlessly about the Gyro for decades. He and his cohorts have got all the followers of Hifi World on board with the thing and it's spread like a disease from there. To me, it's no different to the LP12 bullshit of the 80s spouted by Hifi Review.

Then we have to put up with the "Techie Earth" garbage from the handful of "cognoscenti" on AoS and all the sheep jumping on board with their pimped SL-1210s. FFS people. Make your own damned minds up and stop listening to knowledge-less pricks wanking themselves off in mags and on Forums.

Sorry for the rant, but I bet most people following the trend and then spouting off, haven't heard much else to compare. They just take the word of others that they have the best there is, then add to the hype.

On a happier note: Nice to see Dave and the Doc recommending other decks. I'll keep an eye on that Kenwood too.