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Whilst working today I was listening to Jeremy Vine talking about those who fall through the cracks of the government's economic aid package. Most people employed or retired are generally financially safe. The ones who fall through the cracks are mostly the self employed, like those without three years of tax returns. Small limited companies seem to be on their own.

Limited companies with one director who are the only employee could really be in the shit now. They usually pay themselves a salary up to the NI threshold so they don't have to pay NI . The rest of their income comes from dividends. They are not classed as self employed (just tax dodgers) so don't benefit from the 80% rule. If they furlough themselves then they get 80% of their employee earnings which they have deliberately minimised to under the NI threshold, which is £183 for this tax year. 80% of that is £146.40 which is not a lot to live on if you don't have any put by for a rainy day, many don't. More than Universal Credit though.

karatestu wrote: ↑Tue Apr 14, 2020 7:43 pm

Limited companies with one director who are the only employee could really be in the shit now. They usually pay themselves a salary up to the NI threshold so they don't have to pay NI . The rest of their income comes from dividends. They are not classed as self employed (just tax dodgers) so don't benefit from the 80% rule. If they furlough themselves then they get 80% of their employee earnings which they have deliberately minimised to under the NI threshold, which is £183 for this tax year. 80% of that is £146.40 which is not a lot to live on if you don't have any put by for a rainy day, many don't. More than Universal Credit though.

The old adage of "you reap what you sow" comes to mind.

It's very hard to feel sorry for those people.

valvesRus wrote: ↑Tue Apr 14, 2020 7:49 pm

karatestu wrote: ↑Tue Apr 14, 2020 7:43 pm

Limited companies with one director who are the only employee could really be in the shit now. They usually pay themselves a salary up to the NI threshold so they don't have to pay NI . The rest of their income comes from dividends. They are not classed as self employed (just tax dodgers) so don't benefit from the 80% rule. If they furlough themselves then they get 80% of their employee earnings which they have deliberately minimised to under the NI threshold, which is £183 for this tax year. 80% of that is £146.40 which is not a lot to live on if you don't have any put by for a rainy day, many don't. More than Universal Credit though.

The old adage of "you reap what you sow" comes to mind.

It's very hard to feel sorry for those people.

If their average income was over £50k per annum in the last 3 years, then they wouldn't get anything, anyway. If it wasn't, then it probably wasn't worth all the bother of limited company status.

A lot of those people will have paid many hundreds of thousands of pounds in tax, VAT and NI to HMRC over the years.

I know 3 people in that category. All very good blokes. I will have no trouble feeling sorry for them, or their families, if they suffer hardship as a result of the lockdown. In fact, I will have no trouble in finding a bit of compassion for anyone who comes up against tough times. We are all human.

I am NOT claiming this is true, but it's something I've heard from more than one source and supposedly its origin was a "#10 contact." Make of it what you will...

Info from a #10 contact; #10 has authorised a new advertising/propaganda campaign to convince the public to return to work in May. They are targeting people who will refuse to stop self-isolating before vaccination is available.

Two things make me give it a bit of credence:
1). Cummings has come out of self-isolation and was back at #10 today.
2). VE day is May 5th. What a wonderful time to appeal to the good old bulldog spirit.
The other part of this is that supposedly it will be done in "waves" and part of the "encouragement" will be the withdrawal of furloughing for whoever falls into each particular wave.

It might just be more alarmist bollocks, in which case forget I said anything, but if it does turn out to be true, you heard it here first.

Disn't Johnson go to his 2nd home to recoup. When out of hospital?

There are many who decided to go limited because of the limited liability that it offers, nothing to do with doing it purely for tax reasons. If a builder is sued for a fault which occurs on work they have done obviously they don't want to lose their house because of it. Also many are forced to go Ltd by their clients because of fear of falling fowl of the IR35 rules. Some will not be earning anywhere near £50K. IR35 reform has now been pushed back to next year - the government have had their eye on it for quite some time.

It seems that a lot of ordinary people look like falling through the cracks. A universal income scheme could avoid that, but, as DQ said a few weeks back, the Tories won't do it because it will be an admission that Universal Credit is inadequate.

ArloFlynn wrote: ↑Tue Apr 14, 2020 11:22 pm Disn't Johnson go to his 2nd home to recoup. When out of hospital?

True, he went to Chequers. I think he was forbidden from going to 11 Downing Street as his partner, Carrie Symonds, was still infectious.

She joined him at chequers. But as prime minister some rules don't apply.