HiFi Subjectivist ¦ Audio Forum ¦ NVA User Group

For anyone into modern mainstream music, there's not much incentive to have a decent audio system.

Due to the universal overuse of compression machines. Lo-fi music for lo-fi systems.

Whilst a good hi-fi system will make the most of over-compressed music, there is a huge contrast between relatively uncompressed recordings and typical mainstream 21st century releases.

It's very difficult to justify spending more than £300 on a system if all you're going to play on it is Adele and Coldplay.

The pig-headedness of the Music Industry when it comes to refusing to release uncompressed recordings has stiffled hi-fi sales.
And it looks like this is set to continue for the forseeable future.

The DR database is a good place to fish for recordings to showcase NVA equipment...
https://dr.loudness-war.info/album/list/dr/desc/2

The only hope is film soundtracks for getting the young into well produced music.. My 12 Yr old son watched the Guardians of the Galaxy and other Marvel films and then got the CD's. Now he loves all sorts of stuff from the 70's like Bowie, Zeppelin, AC DC, 10cc, Fleetwood Mac, Marvin Gaye etc etc.

These soundtracks with older well produced music could maybe be used to get younger people interested in higher performance gear. Look at the age group the films are aimed at and see if there is any good music on it that can be used as a carrot on a stick.

Please get back on topic. 3 posts deleted.

savvypaul wrote: ↑Sat Feb 05, 2022 10:12 am Please get back in topic or I will start deleting posts. Thanks, guys.

If the Hi-Fi industry wants to sell its products there needs to be recorded music to play through them. Hi-Fi without music is furniture. If the people who produce recorded music, as opposed to the people who make music, are marketing a product that is designed to sound good as an MP3 file, heavily compressed in both musical and digital data senses, it is difficult to justify the expense of equipment that makes it sound little different from what can be got from a Bluetooth speaker. A case of garbage in, garbage out. It isn’t the Hi-Fi equipment that is at fault, it simply can’t reproduce what isn’t there in the first place.

To my mind FM radio is Hi-Fi, much digital radio isn’t because the bit rate is too low. Sure there’s a lot of music, of high quality, available but if that isn’t what your prospective customers are listening to what would make them buy Hi-Fi?

I have commented elsewhere on the use and abuse of compression in music but it is worth repeating that compressors make things appear louder. If all the customer wants from his music is loud he/she can get a class D amplifier for peanuts. It appears that the best audio source at the moment is home cinema so one possible avenue is to produce a multi channel amp for this market, with the option to play two channel music as well.

Regarding NVA marketing would it be pertinent to emphasise one of the benefits of low volume, low stock level, products is the price is not inflated to subsidise old stock models being sold off at highly discounted prices in the future. Nobody appreciates finding the product they bought last month is now being sold at less than half price. An example : Cyrus One Linear speakers, were £399 now £159.
On a different point. Over the years there have been many posts in forums critical of the build quality of NVA through ignorance because you can't see inside. What about making any demo models with a clear perspex top displaying the component quality and layout. Clear, see through, cases have long been used by DNM.

The current vinyl revival is where the biggest market is to be found for hifi. TV advertising for other articles often shows turntables playing to inply a modern and relaxed lifestyle. Here in Holland most students and young families have an LP-playing setup (alongside wireless streaming speakers) and 2nd-hand record shops are booming, as is the market for new & used TT's.

A whole new generation are discovering 'proper' music reproduction and are realising that better sound than MP3 is possible. To reach this generation, though, you need to use the communications channels like Instagram and Tiktok where their attention can be grabbed.

Phono stages have now taken over from DAC's as the 'hip' thing to have, so marketing with an emphasis on vinyl playback quality would seem to be a sensible move in today's world.

ArloFlynn wrote: ↑Fri Feb 04, 2022 8:57 pm You will own nothing…

I think the Hifi industry will slowly decline as its current market ages. A new listening market needs to be created from the young generations. If there is a market for products, manufactures will supply for it and because the product already exists, you just need to create a new market for it.

There is already an existing online music market for Streaming & downloads etc. So there just needs to be a new market created for offline music, currently in decline. A new way to hear records and CDs but without the upfront expense.
So why not have HIFI For Rent? to attract new younger generations and fit the world business model of the future. It just needs a bit of youthful revolutionary thought, that’s all!

People have always rented stuff like houses & ladies, they used to rent TVs, now they rent Cars and mobile phones. So why not Hifi.

Everything you need will be delivered to your door...

I have NVA A70’s, amongst other NVA stuff, but if I wanted to hear the new line of NVA amps or ABC phono stages or even XYZ speakers, then when my current contract expires, I could upgrade/downgrade/try a different brand. You own bits, like a record player, you rent other bits. The possibilities are endless. Remember there are no rules.

…and you will be happy!

We were looking at this quite early on (just before the pandemic), and we were keen, in principle, but we came to the conclusion that it is a model that better suits more 'disposable' items such as phones and printers, and very large ticket items such as cars (and houses).

We decided, instead, that we would make the amps internally upgradeable. The new integrated will probably have 3 levels; you can start at entry level, then upgrade to levels 2 and 3 by paying only the difference in price between models.

The rental model might work for an online multi-brand dealer - you pay a level of subscription that entitles you to use a selection of different equipment. The more exotic you want to get, the higher the subscription level you pay.

Some thoughts.

A point which needs making is the number of people who see specifications as the be all and end all. There is a very popular forum dedicated to this and its members post charts and graphs on forums which have more wide spread appeal. A person who swears by the gospel of ASR is unlikely to consider NVA. I think it boils down to people who do not trust their own ears and closed minds.
A flat frequency response has little relevance in the real world of a typical listening room. There is also a lot of ignorance concerning amplifier wattage and the driving of speakers in the real world as one example.

Though measurements have some value there is a lot which we hear which can't be measured. I am 100% convinced that frequencies well beyond the range of human hearing effect what we hear and our perception and enjoyment of music. I have a theory that this might have a lot to do with the proportionate popularity of NVA amongst vinyl enthusiasts. Because of the absence of filters, protection circutry and the simplicity of the design (Cubes as well as amps) there is nothing blocking the path of these ultrasonic frequincies. With CD they are cut off by the 44kHz cap. With regard to this forum I think it could have a lot to do with Fretless's switch back to vinyl from digital. Of course with a high level of upsampling the issue is removed from digital.

I think that as part of the social media marketing NVA would benefit from explaining why detailed specs are not quoted and the limitations they have, along with the considerable benefits of less is more in the analogue chain.

Lindsayt wrote: ↑Sat Feb 05, 2022 12:21 am For anyone into modern mainstream music, there's not much incentive to have a decent audio system.

Due to the universal overuse of compression machines. Lo-fi music for lo-fi systems.

Whilst a good hi-fi system will make the most of over-compressed music, there is a huge contrast between relatively uncompressed recordings and typical mainstream 21st century releases.

It's very difficult to justify spending more than £300 on a system if all you're going to play on it is Adele and Coldplay.

The pig-headedness of the Music Industry when it comes to refusing to release uncompressed recordings has stiffled hi-fi sales.
And it looks like this is set to continue for the forseeable future.

The DR database is a good place to fish for recordings to showcase NVA equipment...
https://dr.loudness-war.info/album/list/dr/desc/2

I see modern mainstream music being optimised to sound good on mass market music players as a major, if not the major, problem facing the hifi industry. This really hit home yesterday when I streamed two albums on Qobuz from fifty years apart, Close to the edge and the new release from Slash. The difference was huge and it was not just compression. There was severe roll off at both ends of the frequency response on the Slash album which sounded bass light and lacking sparkle compared with CTTE. The app on my phone supported what I was hearing, there was a lot going on below 100 kHz and above 8000 kHz on the Yes album but not on the Slash one. These two albums might be extreme examples as CTTE has been enhanced by the Steve Wilson remix and most modern recordings are not as severely restricted as the Slash one, but it does reflect what has been going on for a long time. The rolled off frequencies would hardly be audible on mass market play back devices.

A decent system makes the best of these seriously compromised recordings in terms of reproducing a sound stage and sense of space, but the restricted dynamic range and frequency response cannot be recovered. It is a sad state of affairs that despite the technological advances where mass market recordings are concerned those from fifty years ago sound better on a hifi system than those of today by a greater or lesser extent.

I think it is a tricky one. Getting NVA into more homes - with the current state of the UK hi-fi industry and market.
I think that savvypaul has as much or more expertise than anyone when it comes to successfully marketing and selling the NVA brand. And that if anyone can find a good way forward, he can.

On the ad hominem front - in saying this, I'm seeing savvpaul as being part of the topic of this thread, because the opening words in the first post of this thread were "When Tomasz and I took on NVA...".

Are there any thoughts about selling NVA on ebay again, or via Facebook Marketplace, or Amazon? For a bit more brand visibility, if nothing else?