GENERAL ELECTION JUNE 8TH 2017

[Lurcher300b]

As a example of what I believe was the disease. I have looked up who was in charge of BMW and Ford UK for the period from the 1970. Hint, only one of them was trained in engineering.

BMW

Between 1970 and 1993 Dr.-Ing. E.h. Eberhard von Kuenheim, He studied mechanical engineering until 1954 at the Technical University of Stuttgart

Ford UK

Sir Patrick Hennessy (18 April 1898 – 13 March 1981) was an Irish-born British industrialist, originally from County Cork. During the First World War he served in the British army, between 1914 and 1918, with the Royal Inniskilling Fusiliers.[ He started his career in 1920 with Henry Ford & Son in Cork.[2] He relocated to England, by now a separate country, in 1931 when he was appointed Purchasing Manager with Ford of Britain.[2] He was progressively promoted, appointed General Manager in 1939, Managing Director in 1948 and Chairman in 1956.

Sir Leonard Crossland (2 March 1914 – 5 August 1999) was an automobile executive who filled a succession of increasingly high level appointments with Ford of Britain, culminating with the chairmanship which he held between 1968 and 1972. He joined Ford in 1937 and worked in the purchasing function until 1939 before leaving to join the British Royal Army Service Corps between 1939 and 1945: these were, for Britain, the years of the Second World War. Following a series of promotions his appointment as Managing Director, in succession to Stanley Gillen, was announced in June 1967. In May 1968, on the official retirement of Sir Patrick Hennessy, Crossland was elected to the Chairmanship. After his Ford chairmanship, he acquired several subsequent directorships in the auto-sector.

[savvypaul]

Out of interest, who do you think should control industries, and why?

Are we talking about the industries that we paid for through our taxes and were sold off for a fraction of their worth by Thatcher? The industries that are now often owned by, and making huge profits for, overseas governments? The basic infrastructure of a country - water, energy, transport, communications - are the property of the people.

In my experience, those who go bleating on about how public sector ownership is so much better for xyz are often armchair socialists who've never worked in the public sector and are clueless as to why generally speaking it doesn't always work terribly well.

I've worked at the sharp end of both public and private sector. Seen good and bad practice in both. Plenty of bad leadership in private utility, transport and communications companies but it doesn't seem to damage their profits - we simply get worse and worse service and a higher price to the consumer while many of the companies continue to receive huge subsidies.

[Lurcher300b]

Are we talking about the industries that we paid for through our taxes and were sold off for a fraction of their worth by Thatcher? The industries that are now often owned by, and making huge profits for, overseas governments? The basic infrastructure of a country - water, energy, transport, communications - are the property of the people.

Well, I originally meant those industries that i the 1970 it seems that by popular view were brought to their knees by Trade Unions who had the temerity to believe that the workers should have some say in how their labour was used. Clearly just an example of the uppity lower classes expecting more than their station deserved. But, yes, your list as well.

[savvypaul]

Are we talking about the industries that we paid for through our taxes and were sold off for a fraction of their worth by Thatcher? The industries that are now often owned by, and making huge profits for, overseas governments? The basic infrastructure of a country - water, energy, transport, communications - are the property of the people.

Well, I originally meant those industries that i the 1970 it seems that by popular view were brought to their knees by Trade Unions who had the temerity to believe that the workers should have some say in how their labour was used. Clearly just an example of the uppity lower classes expecting more than their station deserved. But, yes, your list as well.

Uppity Class...now I like the sound of that one

[Dr Bunsen Honeydew]

Just look at the Southern guards strike to see the nonsense perpetrated by unions, yet they seem to be able to blame the management. I just use this as an example, it is happening all the time and is the raison d'etre of British Union. German Unions work with the companies not against them, they see themselves as partners. NOT HERE and almost entirely due to the unions and the attitudes STILL embedded in us from the time of that daft late 1950's film. No wonder people laugh at us.

I live on Southeastern, they use one man trains and have been using them for years, and the driver are happy with safety, BUT ARE TOLD by the union not to admit it, I have spoken to them as I have an interest in railways, I even manage to get the occasional cab ride. Southern and Southeastern are owned by the same company, same rules, same unions, same everything. BUT the unions have decided they lose power over the trains and will not be able to effectively strike if they lose the second man to call out on strike. THAT AND THE DESIRE TO PRESERVE MEMBERSHIP IS ALL THAT DISPUTE IS ABOUT, and yes I am shouting because it makes me angry.

And the Railway Unions have been hijacked by the extreme left so the strikes are also political motivated bullshit!!!!! This would not happen on German railways, and they would solve it because they are not *enemies* and they work together. THAT IS WHAT IS WRONG WITH BRITISH UNIONS WRAPPED UP IN THAT ONE DISPUTE. AND who is the major shareholder of both the Southeastern and Southern franchises well what surprise GERMAN RAILWAYS, majority shareholder in Govia the operating company.

Would this stupidity happen in Germany, of course not - the reason, they don't have British Unions to deal with. British unions are now basically political entities, they have no interest in their members, they have interest in their own power, and the stupid egotists who get themselves elected to run them. Most of them don't seem to have two brain cells to rub together. It is like having Marco run the TUC

I see no other alternative to get the UK back as a manufacturing nation with sensible workers, is either to ban them where they have too much power, or do as the Japanese car makers have. The only answer is to *temporarily* ban all industrial action by law, and then get together to draw a social contract between the workers and the companies as is done in Germany to allow them to emerge again as a a positive influence in the UK.

If the Labour Party wasn't *owned* by the Unions I could well be convinced to give socialism another chance. BUT the course of history is going the opposite way at the moment, a socialist UK outside the EU will not work.

[Simon Hickie]

Don't confuse people with real evidence DBH. They will just go into denial mode.

[savvypaul]

The only answer is to *temporarily* ban all industrial action by law

A temporary ban on industrial action? Reciprocated with a temporary ban on redundancies, dismissals, changes to terms & conditions and working practices? Meaningful deals come as a result of a period building trust, involvement, agreed vision and goals, mutual understanding and shared rewards...not imposition.

Re Southern Rail guards strike / driver only operation...there are faults, and genuine concerns, on all sides - company, union, colleagues, government. The union sees only loss of status and power from the implementation of driver only operation. The company sees only cost saving and reduced union power, and pleasing government. Guards want to continue in the roles they know. Change is scary without help. There is a balance to be struck, and a way forward, but only when relationships improve. Takes more than one side to make a relationship.

BTW, Driver-only operation can be safe enough. Having a 2nd safety critical member onboard can enhance safety (and service), especially when something unplanned happens, but it costs.

[Dr Bunsen Honeydew]

That is silly, if a company is going to do it they will do it anyway, this is not the 1970's again, even if you wish it. In 90% of situations unions have no power as such, they only have power when they can cause damage as with Southern Rail and the London Transport system. So your statement apart from these cases is invalid. It is these cases where the status quo is not working that we need a new reality, call it a truce if you like. We have a current status quo of unions defending what is seen as good for them and bad for the company, and companies defending what is seen as good for them and bad for the unions - can you think of a more stupid situation. They are in conflict, they are enemies.

There is far more to come on the railways, as the unions know very well. We have the *safe* technology now for driverless trains, we have been using it for decade on the Victoria, Central and Jubilee lines at LT and on the DLR with no one aboard, and it can now be rolled out on the surface railways. It will in the end be safer, as the railways cannot afford to have platform staff at all stations and on trains. The future will be platform staff who release the train at each stop, and computers control it until the next stop. By doing so signals become redundant, the absolute block can be replaced by a moving block, train intervals can come down to three or more trains potentially running where only one could before. Safer as there are far more accidents on platforms than on trains.

Will the unions wear it, of course not, they wont even allow the guy sitting on his arse in his own compartment, doing sweet feck all between stations to be removed, removing the driver - yer of course I suppose if you could find a way to sign up the computers to be union members and get them to come out on strike they would love it. Per usual the unions are just Luddites looking after themselves.

[Daniel Quinn]

Doc when was the last time you went on a train that was not a tube . I have been on two trains a day for the past 20 years . During that time I have seen guards

sell tickets and provide information daily
ease congestion and manage people getting on numerous time
evict none paying passengers
stop the train and phone an ambulance for a women in labour
stop the train and apprehend an man who sexuallu assaulted a women and await the police .

why should guards be eradicated , in whose benefit will it be . train companies are effectively state subsidised monopolies , making millions for a few and the expense of the many , you should redirect your opprobrium to the real enemy . Once these guards are placed on the dole , they will be funded by the state leaving the rail company free to concentrate even more wealth in the hands of the few .

You sound like the angry mob who turn on a man cause he has just had the last piece of the cake , after being identified as the last slice eater by the person who had previously eaten 7 slices .

[Daniel Quinn]

As for the Culture of skiving , there is a brilliant book written in 1977 by Paul Willis , Learning to Labour , how working class kids get working class jobs . It demonstrates the culture that sees wc boys will only fit in , in a narrow section of society is propagated. In it there are chapters on work on how people in unskilled work who are treated as second class citzens by their bosses and have no power and control over their working lives , regain a semblance of self control and self respect through the skiving and pranking . If you are treated as a commodity not a human then it is natural , no sensible to do as little as possible .

You continue to treat individuals as atoms in Brownian motion , who merely collide with one another and are never effected by each other or influenced by their surroundings or material conditions . This means you can articulate the problem but not the cause . I blame your yin and yan philosophical approach which emphasises the individual at the expense of the collective and the material conditions we become humans within .

The problem with the british worker as always been the lofty sense of superiority of the ruling class , who have nothing but contempt for workers and seek merely to exploit them for their own enrichment . This remains the case to this day . Contrast this with the partnership paradigm of the German worker or the valuable member of the company model of likes of google and Facebook .

As an example , if you die whilst working for google , they will pay your spouse 50% of your salary for 10 years . Government is necessary because the capitalist model is to look after only those at top , somewhat perversely if companies had a social responsibility to their employees and local community then less government would be required,