GENERAL ELECTION JUNE 8TH 2017

[savvypaul]

That is silly

I understand my comments may appear silly. I think that's because we are talking about very different things. You are talking about who is right and who is wrong. Everybody involved thinks they are right, that is a given. I am talking about how we reach a negotiated and fair settlement and how we work in the future. The first step in negotiation is to understand and acknowledge that everybody is right.

If we assume that your proposal to become a Chinese / Russian style dictatorship doesn't happen anytime soon, then we are stuck with negotiation. You dislike the fact that the union has power regarding this issue (the withdrawal of labour has significant impact) so if we want them to give up that power (which, all other issues aside, is what driver only operation causes) then we have to give them a good reason to do so. Let's imagine that we can come up with something more sophisticated than 'imprisonment if you don't do as we say'

Greater involvement in the day to day running of the operation, participation at boardroom level, shared rewards from cost savings, improved working environments, investment in colleague development - these are some of the things to start with, in my experience. These things take time, of course, but the sooner we start the sooner we get there. In the meantime, it may be most expedient for the company to offer a very generous 'transitional' arrangement.

[Dr Bunsen Honeydew]

It is called progress, we have it all the time in all things. Certain forces try to stop it in self interest, the unions being the main offenders. The rules that govern railway safety were hard fought for and are entrenched now in law. BUT they apply to the Victorian railway system not the modern system. A classic example is guards. For the first 50 years of railways they didn't even have a proper through train braking system. They had hand brakes on the engine and hand brake in the guards van or apartment, the guards were an essential part of operating the train and worked together via whistle signals. Also if a train stopped mid block section it was the guards duty to protect the rear of the train by walking back down the line placing detonators (compression bangers) on the rails to warn oncoming trains, and to report to the last signal box they passed, plus other safety duties. Now they are redundant apart from to press buttons to open and close the doors at stations. Which with the ease of driving modern trains (like driving a bus but easier) can be done very easily by the driver.

It is automation, and you or no one can stop it as technology advances. Workers have tried to stop it since the Luddites smashed machinery that took their jobs, this is just a modern version.

Where did you get Russia or China from, every post I have said I want the German system of industrial management as it has been proved to work. The British unions will not change until forced to, that is obvious now. All strikes in public and essential services where they can cause damage to the public should be made illegal. They should be removed from politics as they wield too much power in the Labour Party. They finance it so they own it. Then a social contract should be agreed to give them limited powers back to use responsibly by the new correctly elected non political executives.

[Daniel Quinn]

Progress is not a one way road . Progress is defined currently as what puts more profit in a few peoples hands . All r&d and technological developments are premised on this , start with a different premise you get different progress .

as for the rest , o dear you really are talking rubbish , it is better for a select few millionaires to fund a party than it is for millions of union members? For some reason you are taking this personally and it is interfering with your usual intelligence .

perhaps I should force you to make amps at a discount for marco , cagey and pfp the analogy is valid .The fact it is a public service is a benefit for the public not a reason to castrate the rights of those who work in it for the benefit of others !!!!

[Dr Bunsen Honeydew]

Far from it. I can put equal arguments for what needs to change on the side of the right in politics and management in industry. As I have stated, the one causes the other as they are in conflict. Originally the unions were good and a result to correct exploitation and imbalance, but now they need change as the balance has gone the other way. A lot has been done to control them but the needed changes in structure and philosophy has not happened.

There is only one way to solve the political problem of finance for political parties, and that is to make elections publicly financed, day to day running of the parties can be financed by membership fees as with all private clubs. The sooner the Unions and the vested interest donations as with the Conservatives is banned the better. You should not be able to buy political influence, and the same as the unions have to change so does this.

Don't accuse me of position, as per usual I sit right on the fence down the middle, and comment on the stupidity on both sides of it when I see it.

I have used the Southern Railway dispute as example as it is so glaringly obvious what is going on to people who understand, but that information is not being made clear to the public. The Railway unions are ENTIRELY responsible for that dispute, trying to stop progress that is needed for better service to the public and for saved costs. This could also be done with a nationalised railway system again, as in just about every other European country, where railways are seen as a public service not a business. I am happy with that, but NOT as long as the unions wield so much power over it, to disrupt it, as in the UK, can you imagine the chaos, well I can!!! They will think they own it again, as they thought in 1947.

[savvypaul]

Where did you get Russia or China from, every post I have said I want the German system of industrial management as it has been proved to work.

German progress has been built on partnership with unions - the exact opposite of what you are proposing.

[Dr Bunsen Honeydew]

You obviously can't read mate, as that is exactly what I am proposing, both side have to change. The problem is the unions wont, so they will have to be forced to.

[Lurcher300b]

There is only one way to solve the political problem of finance for parties, and that is to make elections publicly financed

You are forgetting or ignoring the influence the media has in all this. Even if the parties were disconnected from financial influence (though I have no idea how you intend that to happen in practice), the media influence would still allow money to create a generally right wing bias.

Its always intrigued me that the idea of giving money to the rich is meant to create a "trickle down" effect, but the idea of actually giving money to the poorest is considered equivalent to burning the money, A single mother spending £5 on food gives just as much back to the economy as anyone else spending £5

[Daniel Quinn]

Doc your position is analogous to moaning about a broken nail , when your tibula and fibula are protruding from your shin .

If I am CEO on 8.9 million a year , I don't need to strike . However , if I am public service worker who pay as declined , whose workload as increased ,whose conditions have deteriorated it is all i have left .

My middle boy as had arthritis for six years and during that time the NHS as gone from a pleasant . efficient well run experience to a fortnightly trip to Armageddon . All normal workers lives { public or not } are being deteriorated and The national debt as increased from 97.9 billion under labour to 17314.4 trillion .

This is at a time when GDP as been rising and the wealth of the top 1% as increased by a factor of at least 1000. We are constantly told the NHS and our public services are not viable because of an absence of money at the same time companies like Apple have historically high cash reserves {246 billion }

The solution is fucking simple. Take if form those that have and give it to those that need it in the National interest .

[savvypaul]

You obviously can't read mate, as that is exactly what I am proposing, both side have to change.

I agree that change is required - but starting with respect for everyone's position. That is the beginning of any successful negotiation. I've re-read your posts, and I remain confident in my ability to read, and to understand what you have written. You propose that both sides are stupid. I propose that both sides have valid issues and concerns that must be acknowledged and addressed before a settlement can be reached. That's not exactly the same, but it is, erm...progress

[savvypaul]

I should force you to make amps at a discount for marco , cagey and pfp the analogy is valid .

In which case, Doc, you will want to join a union...