HiFi Subjectivist ¦ Audio Forum ¦ NVA User Group

I'm not sure if Chunk is still with us - given what he told us previously, and that it's a while since we last heard from him, we might assume not.

This thread caused a bit of a stir, at the time, mainly due to the method of connecting a sub to NVA equipment. However, my interest was piqued because of the passionate way that he spoke about the benefits he perceived from adding the subs.

I have been trying a sub in my own system, at home, for the past few weeks. It's the same sub as Chunk used - BKXLS200 - but I am using one sub rather than two.

With my Cube 1s, I didn't get along with the sub. The Cube 1s already have pretty deep bass and I found it hard to integrate the sub, both in terms of timing and phase. However, with my Klipsch Heresy 3s, I achieved a very significant improvement - voices have filled out and the music has a very pleasingly solid foundation and drive, with no negative effects on timing. The Heresys sound a lot bigger than they previously did, but without losing any of their clarity and dynamics. I was originally thinking of finding a pair of Cornwalls to give me the bass that the Heresys were missing, but s/h prices have more than doubled since I bought the Heresys (secondhand) a few years back.

I suspect that the Heresys are well suited to a sub - sealed box and rolling off pretty early at 58hz. I did the 'subwoofer crawl' for a short while to work out where to position the sub (but I already had a pretty good idea of where bass 'appears' and 'disappears' in my room) and it was very easy to integrate with the Heresys. The BK sub is also a sealed box and is front firing.

I connected to the sub's 'low level' input by RCA leads from a spare set of outputs on my P90sa. I have the sub phase set to zero and volume only at 9 'o' clock. The 'high level' connection from a power amplifier's speaker terminals should NEVER be used with NVA.

First off I really hope Chuck is still alive and hopefully able to respond. Second I think that's interesting on the sub Paul. I have fancied playing around with a sub and who knows maybe one day I will

I've never used a sub, never felt the need to since the speakers I've owned have always given me enough bass, probably until now. I am very happy with my Cesti's but with you bring subs up, I think a sub would work in this system. I don't think I'll be trying though, if I was to spend anymore it would probably be a better dac.

savvypaul wrote: ↑Wed May 12, 2021 12:36 pm I'm not sure if Chunk is still with us - given what he told us previously, and that it's a while since we last heard from him, we might assume not.

This thread caused a bit of a stir, at the time, mainly due to the method of connecting a sub to NVA equipment. However, my interest was piqued because of the passionate way that he spoke about the benefits he perceived from adding the subs.

I have been trying a sub in my own system, at home, for the past few weeks. It's the same sub as Chunk used - BKXLS200 - but I am using one sub rather than two.

With my Cube 1s, I didn't get along with the sub. The Cube 1s already have pretty deep bass and I found it hard to integrate the sub, both in terms of timing and phase. However, with my Klipsch Heresy 3s, I achieved a very significant improvement - voices have filled out and the music has a very pleasingly solid foundation and drive, with no negative effects on timing. The Heresys sound a lot bigger than they previously did, but without losing any of their clarity and dynamics. I was originally thinking of finding a pair of Cornwalls to give me the bass that the Heresys were missing, but s/h prices have more than doubled since I bought the Heresys (secondhand) a few years back.

I suspect that the Heresys are well suited to a sub - sealed box and rolling off pretty early at 58hz. I did the 'subwoofer crawl' for a short while to work out where to position the sub (but I already had a pretty good idea of where bass 'appears' and 'disappears' in my room) and it was very easy to integrate with the Heresys. The BK sub is also a sealed box and is front firing.

I connected to the sub's 'low level' input by RCA leads from a spare set of outputs on my P90sa. I have the sub phase set to zero and volume only at 9 'o' clock. The 'high level' connection from a power amplifier's speaker terminals should NEVER be used with NVA.

I use the exact same method. Spare output from P90SA to sub. Sub not directly connected to NVA power amp.

It works well 99% of the time, particularly with digital sources. My speakers are Tannoy Precision Dual Concentrics (I have other spare Tannoys, but these speakers work well in my smaller listening room 14ftx15ft). The speakers are very nice to listen to, but as they’re smaller drivers, the bass drops off, so a sub really complements them.

However, my turntable has better bass dynamics than my digital sources, and handles bass quickly, accurately, with great agility. This is where the sub and speakers fight each other a bit. The speakers try their best to reproduce the bass notes that the sub can manage with ease. It’s that fight where the speakers try to produce the bass notes (while the sub is actually doing it) that I find a little jarring. It’s only an issues on very well mastered/pressed vinyl with very busy sub bass notes, so not every album. Less of an issue with streaming sources.

I’ve have mostly used used Rel subs with Quad 57’s, and older Tannoy Dual Concentrics (little gold monitors, Monitor Red etc) from the early 90’s onwards, but have always used the internal crossover that the sub offered, this helps relieve the speakers from the bass frequencies that they struggle with, and removes the miss-match in bass frequencies that I get with some vinyl pressings.

However, the late great doc advised that I shouldn’t set it up this way, as the subs internal crossover doesn’t work well the the capacitance loading that NVA amps need. He told me to buy some ‘proper speakers’ that could reproduce those sub-bass notes, but I use a small and oddly shaped multi function listening room, and I need to work with the footprint available, and the smaller Tannoy & sub setup works well (most of the time).

Oddly, he said that speakers with subs built in (Martin Logan electrostatics etc) were fine, but that’s still a speaker, sub, and additional crossover …I don’t quite get how they’re different.

So, since switching to NVA, I’ve never used the subs internal crossover to better match the integration of the sub with the speakers. Being able to do so without damaging NVA amps would improve the listening experience.

Note to Paul. My A70 died before I added the sub to my system, there is no connection.

I added the sub to my system (and only from
Passive Pre feed) since using my spare A30.
Even though they clash a little, I still prefer the sub in the system to not.

TheMarlin wrote: ↑Thu May 13, 2021 5:03 am I’ve have mostly used used Rel subs with Quad 57’s, and older Tannoy Dual Concentrics (little gold monitors, Monitor Red etc) from the early 90’s onwards, but have always used the internal crossover that the sub offered, this helps relieve the speakers from the bass frequencies that they struggle with, and removes the miss-match in bass frequencies that I get with some vinyl pressings.

However, the late great doc advised that I shouldn’t set it up this way, as the subs internal crossover doesn’t work well the the capacitance loading that NVA amps need. He told me to buy some ‘proper speakers’ that could reproduce those sub-bass notes, but I use a small and oddly shaped multi function listening room, and I need to work with the footprint available, and the smaller Tannoy & sub setup works well (most of the time).

I think Cornwalls would have been my ideal solution, but if I'd bought Cornwalls and got the level of improvement that I have from the sub, then I'd be very pleased...and the Cornwalls are now £6k while the sub costs £355.

Your Tannoys will still be seeing the full frequency range. If you want to relieve them of lower bass duties then you'd need a passive crossover between pre and power amps. Either way, I would try blocking the ports on the Tannoys and then cross the subwoofer over a little higher - try 80hz.

savvypaul wrote: ↑Thu May 13, 2021 4:06 pm

TheMarlin wrote: ↑Thu May 13, 2021 5:03 am I’ve have mostly used used Rel subs with Quad 57’s, and older Tannoy Dual Concentrics (little gold monitors, Monitor Red etc) from the early 90’s onwards, but have always used the internal crossover that the sub offered, this helps relieve the speakers from the bass frequencies that they struggle with, and removes the miss-match in bass frequencies that I get with some vinyl pressings.

However, the late great doc advised that I shouldn’t set it up this way, as the subs internal crossover doesn’t work well the the capacitance loading that NVA amps need. He told me to buy some ‘proper speakers’ that could reproduce those sub-bass notes, but I use a small and oddly shaped multi function listening room, and I need to work with the footprint available, and the smaller Tannoy & sub setup works well (most of the time).

I think Cornwalls would have been my ideal solution, but if I'd bought Cornwalls and got the level of improvement that I have from the sub, then I'd be very pleased...and the Cornwalls are now £6k while the sub costs £355.

Your Tannoys will still be seeing the full frequency range. If you want to relieve them of lower bass duties then you'd need a passive crossover between pre and power amps. Either way, I would try blocking the ports on the Tannoys and then cross the subwoofer over a little higher - try 80hz.

Ok, will have a play. Will dig out my spare spare amp