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CN211276 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 26, 2022 9:50 am However the figures are interpreted, there can be no doubt that thousands of deaths would have been prevented had the lockdowns been sooner. Allowing Cheltenham to go ahead in March 2000 was madness. Football authorities took matters into their own hands by cancelling fixtures before lock down. Because the lockdowns were implemented too late they went on for longer than would otherwise have been the case. Made no. difference to No. 10 though.

On Wednesday I'm going to a funeral.

15 months ago Roy started getting bad earache. He contacted his GP. The over the phone diagnosis was an ear infection.
14 months ago he still had bad earache. He couldn't sleep well at night from the pain, and he found it difficult to concentrate on anything. Back to the GP. Given antibiotics.
12 months ago he still had bad earache. The GP was unable to book him in for an ear syringe.
9 months ago. Still earache. The over the phone diagnosis was that it was an ear infection and he was given another course of antibiotics and painkillers. Still unable to get his ears syringed, he paid to get them syringed privately.
6 months ago his dentist referred him to get him booked in for a head scan.
3 months ago, no appointment for a scan had become available. I was asked to take him to hospital. When I picked him up it was like he was snoring whilst he was awake. He was unable to speak properly. A few minutes after I dropped him off he had a cardiac arrest due to a lack of oxygen in his blood. They revived him 4 minutes after his heart stopped. He was then put into intensive care.

He was diagnosed with ear and throat cancer.

Roy is a victim of the covid lockdowns in this country.

Thanks for that Lindsay.

New entry on this week's chart...

Baha Men - Who Flew The Dogs Out?

Lindsayt wrote: ↑Thu Jan 27, 2022 6:54 pm


Roy is a victim of the covid lockdowns in this country.

More a victim of the state of the NHS in England under the Consevatives. Sorry for your loss but I'm sure things would have worked out differently in Wales where health is devolved and the Government is compotent.

In August I had a call from my GP saying a scan had been arranged for me on Saturday at the hospital. This was entierly routine and a follow up to when I broke my foot in 2013. If routine non urgent are cases receive attention this side of the Severn Bridge I am sure those in far greater need are not neglected. Lockdown restrictions were more stringent in Wales.

CN211276 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 27, 2022 7:48 pm

Lindsayt wrote: ↑Thu Jan 27, 2022 6:54 pm


Roy is a victim of the covid lockdowns in this country.

More a victim of the state of the NHS in England under the Consevatives. Sorry for your loss but I'm sure things would have worked out differently in Wales where health is devolved and the Government is compotent.

In August I had a call from my GP saying a scan had been arranged for me on Saturday at the hospital. This was entierly routine and a follow up to when I broke my foot in 2013. If routine non urgent are cases receive attention this side of the Severn Bridge I am sure those in far greater need are not neglected. Lockdown restrictions were more stringent in Wales.

"During the period of austerity that followed the 2008 economic crash, the Department of Health and Social Care budget continued to grow but at a slower pace than in previous years. Budgets rose by 1.4 per cent each year on average (adjusting for inflation) in the 10 years between 2009/10 to 2018/19, compared to the 3.7 per cent average rises since the NHS was established."
Source: https://www.kingsfund.org.uk/projects/n ... nhs-budget

On what planet does increasing the budget of a huge organisation by 1.4% above inflation every year on average equal allowing it to get into a "state"?
What sort of an organisation gets into a "state" because its annual budget is only rising by 1.4% per year above inflation instead of the 3.7% that it previously was?
Answer: none!
Any huge organisation that is growing by 1.4% per year above inflation is doing very nicely, thank-you very much.

If the budget of the NHS had been REDUCED by 2% per year, allowing for inflation, then over the course of 10 years it may well be fair comment to say that it has been allowed to get into a "state". But that's not the case here.

"Budget" means bugger-all. The defining factor is how the money is spent.

slinger wrote: ↑Thu Jan 27, 2022 9:59 pm "Budget" means bugger-all. The defining factor is how the money is spent.

I can vouch for that after being part of the Government Business Team of the Health Division of the Welsh Government between 2013-17 under Mark Drakeford who was Health Minister at the time. I was well aware of inappropriate allocation of health funding in England compared to Wales and this was included in briefings to be fired back at the Conservative opposition at plenary. In Wales detection of major conditions and prevention were high priorities. In England funds were distributed to areas of little benefit. I have been out of the loop since retiring four and a half years ago, but if the Covid PPE fiasco is anything to go by the situation in England has not got better with Brexit making things worse.

Have a look at the figures for health spending as a percentage of GDP since 2008, Lindsay.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/472 ... ingdom-uk/

slinger wrote: ↑Thu Jan 27, 2022 9:59 pm "Budget" means bugger-all. The defining factor is how the money is spent.

Surely how the money is spent is largely down to the management within the NHS?
How fair is it to blame a claimed / hypothetical / imagined increase in inefficiency / stupidity in the NHS on the Conservative party?

Instead of blaming it on the C N Parkinson type nature of huge publicly funded organisations. Where there is a natural tendency to increased inefficiency over time - according to observers such as C N Parkinson.

What evidence is there that NHS spending was less efficient in 2019 than it was in 2009?

And IF there is any such evidence, how does that compare to the effects that Government Covid policies have had for patients such as Roy?

savvypaul wrote: ↑Fri Jan 28, 2022 12:01 am Have a look at the figures for health spending as a percentage of GDP since 2008, Lindsay.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/472 ... ingdom-uk/

Webpage you linked to does not provide clear info on GDP over the years, nor on spending on the NHS vs GDP over the years. Can you provide a link that does so?

So, if I have a career where I had a reduction in income in 2008 and have since had increases above inflation up until 2020 and the amount of money I have been spending on my garden has been increasing by 1.4% above inflation every year, would you expect my garden to get in a worse state in 2019 than it was in 2009? Simply because the spending on the garden didn't increase as much as my income?

Lindsayt wrote: ↑Fri Jan 28, 2022 8:25 am
Surely how the money is spent is largely down to the management within the NHS?

Not true where Wales is concerned and I would think the situation is similar in England.

The Welsh Government allocates funds to regional health boards, the amount depending on the considered need. The health boards are responsible for the allocation of their funding and have autonamy in their regions. The performance of the health boards is closely monitored by the Welsh Government and issues are brought to the chair and chief executive. In extreme cases the Welsh Government can take over the running of the health board to rectify serious problems. The long and the short of it is government Ministers and not the NHS has overall responsibility.