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Chelsea demanding that their FA Cup match at Middlesbrough be played behind closed doors because they are barred from selling away tickets due to the sanctions imposed on Roman Abromovich. Very poor attitude. Let Boro fill the whole stadium with their own fans and give the extra proceeds towards helping Ukrainian refugees.

I agree 100%, Paul. Ticketing might be a problem, though. Boro might need to reduce ticket prices to fill the Riverside, which might lead to fans who'd already paid full-price getting the arse.

It's a 17:15 kickoff, on a Saturday, so maybe they could open the "away" end as a family enclosure of some sort. Parents pay for themselves and get a free child ticket. Something like that?

I think it's a poor attitude of the British Government to seize / freeze the assets of private individuals just because they are Russian. Or have spent time with a certain person.

I'm failing to see what those individuals have done that's illegal.

I can see what I think is illegal and immoral and unethical behaviour by the UK authorities.

Seems like another case of coming up with an enemy and using that as an excuse to exert power over others.
I'm sick and tired of the Governement getting too big for its' boots.

Lindsayt wrote: ↑Tue Mar 15, 2022 3:59 pm I think it's a poor attitude of the British Government to seize / freeze the assets of private individuals just because they are Russian. Or have spent time with a certain person.

I'm failing to see what those individuals have done that's illegal.

I can see what I think is illegal and immoral and unethical behaviour by the UK authorities.

Seems like another case of coming up with an enemy and using that as an excuse to exert power over others.
I'm sick and tired of the Governement getting too big for its' boots.

There seem to be 3 pillars of support for Putin; the military, the apparatchiks, and the oligarchs. I've got no problem with targeting their wealth and freedom if it puts pressure on Putin to stop murdering thousands of innocents. We should have done it straight after he used chemical weapons in Syria.

I think your post is strong on principal but severely lacking in context and proportion.

The only way to get rid of Putin is pressure from within and the end justifies the means.

savvypaul wrote: ↑Tue Mar 15, 2022 4:38 pm

Lindsayt wrote: ↑Tue Mar 15, 2022 3:59 pm I think it's a poor attitude of the British Government to seize / freeze the assets of private individuals just because they are Russian. Or have spent time with a certain person.

I'm failing to see what those individuals have done that's illegal.

I can see what I think is illegal and immoral and unethical behaviour by the UK authorities.

Seems like another case of coming up with an enemy and using that as an excuse to exert power over others.
I'm sick and tired of the Governement getting too big for its' boots.

There seem to be 3 pillars of support for Putin; the military, the apparatchiks, and the oligarchs. I've got no problem with targeting their wealth and freedom if it puts pressure on Putin to stop murdering thousands of innocents. We should have done it straight after he used chemical weapons in Syria.

I think your post is strong on principal but severely lacking in context and proportion.

Principles are the mark of an ethical government.

The press narative is that we are the good guys and Putin is the bad guy.

Therefore our government should be working to higher ethical principles than the Russian government.
Otherwise we lose the high moral ground.

It's so easy for the UK Government and press to spin a story that pulls on emotions. These emotions will cloud judgement when it comes to what's legally, morally and ethically right.

I am fed up of government via pulling emotional strings. I'd much rather have government via logic, sound reasoning, with high moral and ethical principles.
I realise that I may be in a minority in this. So be it.

I'm not going to pretend to know what is going on, but it sure isn't what is being reported in MSM. It seems to me that the Ukraine isn't a unified country and "the west" is poking it's collective nose into what amounts to a civil war. But what do i know? Probably nothing.

Lindsayt wrote: ↑Tue Mar 15, 2022 7:11 pm

savvypaul wrote: ↑Tue Mar 15, 2022 4:38 pm

Lindsayt wrote: ↑Tue Mar 15, 2022 3:59 pm I think it's a poor attitude of the British Government to seize / freeze the assets of private individuals just because they are Russian. Or have spent time with a certain person.

I'm failing to see what those individuals have done that's illegal.

I can see what I think is illegal and immoral and unethical behaviour by the UK authorities.

Seems like another case of coming up with an enemy and using that as an excuse to exert power over others.
I'm sick and tired of the Governement getting too big for its' boots.

There seem to be 3 pillars of support for Putin; the military, the apparatchiks, and the oligarchs. I've got no problem with targeting their wealth and freedom if it puts pressure on Putin to stop murdering thousands of innocents. We should have done it straight after he used chemical weapons in Syria.

I think your post is strong on principal but severely lacking in context and proportion.

Principles are the mark of an ethical government.

The press narative is that we are the good guys and Putin is the bad guy.

Therefore our government should be working to higher ethical principles than the Russian government.
Otherwise we lose the high moral ground.

It's so easy for the UK Government and press to spin a story that pulls on emotions. These emotions will cloud judgement when it comes to what's legally, morally and ethically right.

I am fed up of government via pulling emotional strings. I'd much rather have government via logic, sound reasoning, with high moral and ethical principles.
I realise that I may be in a minority in this. So be it.

Opposing murder is a strong ethical principal, but my calculation is not emotional. The West's ethical failing has been to let Putin get away with murder in Syria, Georgia and Chechnya, and turning a blind eye to the proceeds of crime being laundered through the City of London

Restricting the freedom of oligarchs will hurt them and they may then apply pressure on Putin. Oligarchs have been enriched by Putin's actions, in the past, and many, if not all, are (or have been) involved with organised crime. I don't see that they should automatically be protected from feeling the consequence of his actions, now. Pragmatically, they are (some of) the only people that can stop Putin's war, unless NATO engages in direct conflict.

What would be your choice of these options:

Declare war on Russia?
Impose sanctions on those who are known to have close ties with Putin?
Do nothing?

Or, do you think there are other options available? If so, what are they?

This is my take on the original post..Whilst we would all wish for an ethical government that is to my way of thinking, impossible.
I have more than a passing interest in current affairs and I am struggling to think of a government, especially of a large nation that's even close to being ethical. Politics attracts "wrong uns" politics is a dirty game where truth and decency are often in short supply.
As for Putin and his ilk, you don't beat murderous gangster's by playing fair and nice, it follows I am not concerned if we appear to be acting tough or even unlawfully against the oligarchs, they deserve all the shit that's heading their way.

Abramovich is seen as Putin's "money man" according to the Panorama special I saw last night. It's worth 29 minutes of your time if you missed it.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m0014jm8/panorama-roman-abramovichs-dirty-money