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As someone who has never owned a DD turntable but has a hankering to give one a go I am loving this thread

NSNO2021 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 21, 2022 7:32 pm As someone who has never owned a DD turntable but has a hankering to give one a go I am loving this thread

I picked up a Sony PS-LX4 awhile ago as spares- arm not functioning- I converted it to manual and as a table with Quartz lock that only cost me £30 it was amazing- so my point is u don’t have to spend too much to savour DD- just dive in - then, like I intend to do, is buy a quality unit later- it’s just deciding which one

I’ve got a Denon DP55K, with an Origin Live Encounter 3c tinearm, and a Koetsu Black cartridge.

Sounds fab.

I have two setups, one a home made besties (Rega geometry) featuring Technoarm 2 and MP500 MM cart, the Denon with the MC.

My jbe has an airprodigy linear tracking arm on it with an at33sa, the jvc ql-y5f has its own arm and an empire 1000gt.
The jvc is used practically every day. I also have a few of my own build lencos with my own design arm, and a recently acquired roksan xerxes. Thats a work in progress, im half way through removing the intermittent gremlins from the power supply. I had to fix the sag the plinth had and get it to run as the psu was dead. Although there are still issues Ive just taken the rb300 off that it came with and put a tabriz on it i managed to get for relative peanuts, and my dynavector dv20x2.

So ive got all bases covered. And far too many decks
Which is the better drive type? Pick your poison

For a belt drive, I do keep looking at the Nottingham Audio Deck.
They turn up at a great price on the used market, and the build quality looks fantastic.

My home made Rega bases deck is belt drive. I have twin belts on it, which made a huge difference in platter stability. Platter is a 2Kg Delrin unit, which also helps. Love that deck.

I hadnt had a belt drive deck for around 15 years until the xerxes came in to be looked at, cosmetically it was in really good nick and it seemed a real shame for it to be consigned to the bin.
The sag in the top plate was so bad that the platter was touching down and when bodged so the platter could turn, the psu just couldnt pull the platter around. It then failed completely, even after being brought up on a variac. A new psu for one of these is about 500 quid, and a new top plate would need to be made.
The new psu cost plus the cost to make a new top plate made it not economical to repair.
As it was not economical to repair it, I decided to make an offer on it as it was, i dont pay for my own time, and ive put at least 20 hours in already just to get it to run.
In order to remove the sag in a more practical manner than just clamping it straight, i clamped the top plate onto a flat granite slab, then drilled in through the vertical face at the rear of the plate through into the sagged section in 2 places. Then inserted 2 steel rods. That fixed the original top plate so that i could then start to fault find the psu under load
As is, I need to dig further into the psu as there are more faults to find to bring it back completely, the rediculous amount of heat that the psu spits out is what kills them. Its an original 1985 spec model with the xps1 power supply, roksan quickly altered the psu to something more reliable.
It needs much bigger heatsinks and ventilation.
It does sound quite nice though between throwing wobblies

Vinyl-ant wrote: ↑Thu Apr 21, 2022 11:05 pm I hadnt had a belt drive deck for around 15 years until the xerxes came in to be looked at, cosmetically it was in really good nick and it seemed a real shame for it to be consigned to the bin.
The sag in the top plate was so bad that the platter was touching down and when bodged so the platter could turn, the psu just couldnt pull the platter around. It then failed completely, even after being brought up on a variac. A new psu for one of these is about 500 quid, and a new top plate would need to be made.
The new psu cost plus the cost to make a new top plate made it not economical to repair.
As it was not economical to repair it, I decided to make an offer on it as it was, i dont pay for my own time, and ive put at least 20 hours in already just to get it to run.
In order to remove the sag in a more practical manner than just clamping it straight, i clamped the top plate onto a flat granite slab, then drilled in through the vertical face at the rear of the plate through into the sagged section in 2 places. Then inserted 2 steel rods. That fixed the original top plate so that i could then start to fault find the psu under load
As is, I need to dig further into the psu as there are more faults to find to bring it back completely, the rediculous amount of heat that the psu spits out is what kills them. Its an original 1985 spec model with the xps1 power supply, roksan quickly altered the psu to something more reliable.
It needs much bigger heatsinks and ventilation.
It does sound quite nice though between throwing wobblies

Would love to see a thread on how you bring this deck back to life. Most people don’t know how to tackle a saggy Xerxes. I looked at a few when I was hunting for a turntable for my daughter, but they had all sagged, a very common problem.

There are various ways to remove the sag, all of which include putting something or other across the cutout to do it. Some cleverer solutions use some sort of lossy material, but the only way to do it 'properly' is to make a new top plate.
Some corners of the internet say a xerxes is ruined if you bridge the cutout to get rid of the sag, i say, who cares, if the sag stops it working which it does then its bricked. If you remove the sag so it works again, then its not bricked. It might sound abit different, i wouldn't know, but it either works or it doesnt. Id rather it worked.

I did find a way to paint veneer so it matches the original black ash finish on this one, and its not exactly rocket surgery to make a copy of the original top plate which i will do at some point. Changing the material for the top plate for something like baltic birch ply so it doesnt sag over time is something perfectly doable, but do that, and the resonance of said plate will be different to the original mdf one. So it will sound different again.

Its another one of those decks that there is alot of bollocks talked around.

I terestingly, of all the decks ive had, ive only had one unreliable dd deck, a technics sl150 that was awful. Ive had more bother over the years with belt drives. Usually the power supply if its more complicated than a rudimentary phase shift cap/resistor job.

Vinyl-ant wrote: ↑Fri Apr 22, 2022 6:40 am
Its another one of those decks that there is alot of bollocks talked around.

I terestingly, of all the decks ive had, ive only had one unreliable dd deck, a technics sl150 that was awful. Ive had more bother over the years with belt drives. Usually the power supply if its more complicated than a rudimentary phase shift cap/resistor job.

Hi Fi or Audio or whatever you call it and talking bollocks go hand in hand, it was ever thus

Had a think about what decks ive had, its quite a list.

Direct drives

Sony ps11 - fine....
Sony ps20f falcon - nondescript
Sony ps212 - forgettable
Sony psx 75 - dead on arrival
Pioneer pl520 - very good, cast aluminium plinth
Pioneer pl l800 - fab sound but looked abit rubbish
Pioneer pl l1000 - wonderful deck, wish i still had it
Technics sl3110 - reasonable
Technics sl150 - crap
Technics sl2000 - reasonable
Denon dp2000 - bloody good, had a helius arm on it
Jvc jl f50 - surprisingly good
Jvc ql-y5f (x3) - wonderful decks
Jvc ql-y3f - wonderful deck
Dual eds1000 (motor built into my own deck) - fab while it lasted
Jbe series 3 - will never be sold

Idlers
Dual 1219 - overcomplicated, not my cup of tea
Goldring g99 - lovely when sorted
Lenco gl69 - great with mm carts
Lenco gl72 - great, better arm than the 75
Lenco l70 - lovely in a new plinth
Lenco l75 (far too many, must be at least 10 of my own not counting other peoples) - as above
Lenco l78 as above
Garrard 401 - a pain in the arse to get right but did sound stunning after huge amounts of work
Garrard 301 - as above, looks better than the 401, sounded practically the same

Belt drives
Trio kd1033 - passable
Project debut 2 - fine....
Linn lp12 - a massive pain in the arse but could sound good if given a masons handshake
Rega planar 3 - boring and grey.
Roksan xerxes - really rather pleasant
Yamaha pf800 - stunning sound, dc motor, wish i still had it
Thorens td150 (×3) - reasonable in better plinths
Thorens td160 - ok
Own build based on lp12 bits - better than the lp12 was
Acoustic solutions sp121 - shite thing bought in with some other stuff.
Connoisseur bd2 - bought for the mayware arm on it, had a warped platter so got skipped

There is also a teac deck from the late 60s in the cupboard upstairs that has a double idler, its an interesting concept but is abit hit and miss.

There are some other decks that i had that i cant remember what they were.
Out of all these the denon, the jbe, the jvcs and the pioneer pl l1000 are the best dd decks ive had, the technics decks were disappointing.
The yamaha and the xerxes are the best belt drives ive had by a long way, the yamaha was fabulous, and the l75s are overall the best idlers. The garrards are a pig to get into fine fettle and be speed stable but can sound better in some ways than the lencos can, and are far too expensive in comparison. On the other side of that coin, the lenco can sound better than the garrards in some ways, and are much much more affordable. A peak condition garrard can edge a peak lenco, but cost so much more to get there. However, to get a lenco into the garrard ballpark requires just as much effort, probably more to get it there, but is relatively cheap. Standard lenco 75 with its arm vs standard garrard with a reasonable arm is not really fair Standard g99 to standard garrard is much closer all things being equal.

As always your mileage may vary, and my opinion should be taken as that, an opinion. Like arseholes, everyone has their own